This is the thing; no, it isn't. It's trivial, given the money and support team.

Don't know Kat, I've sat in the Maule which I imagine has similar speeds to the Stearman for multi day, 500 mile legs with both pilots and non pilots in the right seat and regardless you're mentally and physically knackered by the end of the day.

In fact, it is a most serious matter, much beyond the deceit of the solo/alone flight itself.

Artemis are allegedly a multi billion dollar investment firm, allegedly, riding on the thermals of deceit. That has far more serious ramifications I would have thought.

Generally, bona fide sponsors, run shy from this type of behaviour, as seen in recent months/years by dope users.


EDIT* I am unsurprised by Sam's stance on this. They have their own integrity in the wider picture to preserve without being accused of being a conspirator to the deceit. Who could genuinely blame them.

I also notice how the BWPA are remaining tight-lipped on this at the moment.

Jay Sata

You keep pointing out in various threads that Tracy Curtis-Taylor's flights were not solo and that her claims are very misleading.
No-one has disagreed with you.

Instead of continuing to preach to the converted, why don't you and/or Sam Rutherford try to get newspapers interested?
Every British newspaper has a website with contact details for sending stories/news items. I assume newspapers around the world have the same facility.

You could include a link to the National Post item.
Canadians may, as Pilot DAR says, be proud of the National Post but it has a small circulation. If bigger news organisations run the story it will reach many more readers.

Could someone point me at a web site claiming that she was solo?

Apart of course from people on pprune claiming that she claimed it etc.

So it boils down to SOLO or ALONE. Alright it's pretty obvious she wasn't solo but was she alone? The guys name sounds a bit Tuetonic, he could have been a right anti social, humorless dullard devoid of any personality.

'Seems convincing to me! Heliport's and GtE's posts sum it up nicely. Now, if she'd said she was alone in the cockpit, maybe things would be a bit different ;). Or, perhaps there were no flying controls in the other cockpit....

It would be nice to think that our peers, particularly those who know they are in the public eye, are active in their efforts to prevent misunderstanding.

My very first flight in a powered aircraft was alone in the cockpit of a Tiger Moth. I was twelve years old.


That has to be award worthy, surely. I'll get onto the LAA. I want a Gong.

Yeah its simply that the media don't understand the difference between
"alone in an open cockpit" and
"alone, in an open cockpit"

I've flown across the Atlantic "alone in seat 39A" but not
"alone, in seat 39A"

To say that TCT is not deliberately misleading anyone is silly - she may be grammatically correct, but I don't beleive the choice of words and (lack of) punctuation is not deliberately intended to mislead.

Incredible achievement with just two, sometimes three support aircraft, one of them a shadowing helicopter and unlimited finance.:D

It is also educational to look at her highly professional website Tracey Curtis Taylor - Aviatrix, Adventurer, Inspirational Speaker where the home page referring to the crash states 'Tracey and her passenger Ewald Gritsch'

The trip to Australia is described as 'flying with basic period instruments'

And the extensive picture gallery shows an empty front cockpit and I fail to see any mention of a second pilot.

I am struggling to reconcile this with substandard journalists misunderstanding press releases and slips of the tongue in interviews and lectures. If she has the money or connections to go on this sort of jolly, good luck to her - I would love to do so - but please dont besmirch the memory of grater aviators from the past. I am sure she would have just as much publicity were she not to deceive people so one has to ask why?

I guess the answer is that flying solo to Australia is not an easy task doing it the way Amy Johnson did it.
Like a lot of reality tv players these days she seems to enjoy basking in the glare of publicity.

It is not just the national and international media that has failed to see through the PR smokescreen.


In March Pilot magazine chose to list her alongside some of the all time greats in women's aviation at a time when there was already plenty of online discussion over her claims.

10 outstanding women from aviation history - Features - Pilot
To list her alongside Amy Johnson,Amelia Earheart ,the first woman in space Valentina Tereshkova and Sheila Scott is a travesty.

No mention there of Dianna Britten who in 1995 became the first woman in history to claim the title of British Aerobatic Champion. Or Eve Jackson who flew a microlight from the UK to Australia in 1986 a long time before the luxury of GPS, iPads and mobile phones.

I can forgive the mainstream press when they make errors in reporting aviation matters but flying magazines have a duty to get it right.

It would be interesting to hear from the editor why he chose to publish that item and perhaps what plans he has to correct it.

Sheila Scott, now there was a real genuine female solo wide world ranging aviator, a Brit to boot as well.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ythre_1971.jpg

From her website

I suppose the point is that the absence of any comment regarding Ewald is sneaky in itself. Certainly leaves a bit of a sour taste.

It is very noticeable that absolutely everything is about her as the pilot, and every statement she makes is about "I".

I can't think of any other instance where that's been the case - other people have had co-pilots / navigators / assistants / companions - but I can't recall any instances where there's been such apparently deliberate concealment that somebody else was there.

G

And don't forget Judith Chisholm who in 1980 took the solo London-Australia record (held by Jean Batten since 1934) in a single engined Cessna 210T which she dry leased never even thinking to claim it was hers'. She continued around the world setting many more records, a number of which still stand. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9LdBC0ddE
Both Sheila Scott and Judith Chisholm flew SOLO, as did their pioneering predecessors, and without extensive and expensive accompanying technical support and publicity machines. In my view both of these ladies genuinely deserved the many accolades they received from society and their peers in the aviation community. They are the true inspiration to future female pilots and would have continued to be so had they both not succumbed prematurely to cancer.

Good job I confined my opinion exclusively to the lady and not her pathetic non achievement then.

Most of these big adventures, that generate reams of newsprint around the world,have always been the arena where the rich and wealthy get recognition in their social circle.

Balloon here,cross the Atlantic in a big powerboat there or perhaps climb Everest this morning while next week it is a trek to the South Pole.

The rewards come fast and loose from their various clubs and organisations as we have seen with Tracey.

Compare previous reciepients of the HCAP Masters award to TCT. How on earth, if you pardon the pun, can TCT be in the same class as last years winners.

Or the Air League award!

There is a deafening silence from the various GA key people,such as the magazine editors ,who would love to shut this thread down and silence people such as Sam Rutherford who places honesty and integrity above his commercial interests.

Sadly this whole debacle,far from promoting women in UK general aviation, suggests again the well financed and socially connected are still the winners.

I should say Steve Slater, CEO of the LAA, finds himself between a rock and a hard place.

He has the problem of justifying the Bill Woodham Navigation Award.

Given to Tracy who only flew four solo legs out of a journey of 44 on her claimed Africa adventure with presentations across the world.

Plus he is a liveryman of the HCAP and has publicly expressed doubt of the award of the Masters Medal to Tracey Curtis Taylor.
http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic....98714&start=15

On top of that he writes every month for Pilot.

I know a couple of key people in the UK media are delving in to this story and it only a matter of time before it appears in the national press.

Why have we never had a post on here defending her adventures from the hero herself?

In my opinion this hyper promoted woman does nothing to further GA or eliminate the public view flying light aircraft is only for the rich.

She's bloody good at self promotion but...
 

Her interview was interesting to say the least. If we think of a frequently used flying mantra, aviate communicate and navigate it was clear that she didn't always communicate and a Garmin 430 did the navigating. So that leaves the aviating bit and that hasn't always ended up too well. And in her response the question "What is it like flying alone?" you got the impression that she was alone by herself, everyone else was airbrushed out. So I truly wonder what she has achieved for women. It is a shame really because women are under represented in the air in general and in our flight decks in particular. Let us hope TCT's exploits don't put any off.

PM

If I can just expand this discussion is there an element of not questioning what was going on here because she was a well promoted woman.

Would we react the same if a man had engineered a situation where he had got a Light Aviation Association award,plus major peer recognition from the prestigious Honourable Company Of Air Pilots by sleight of publicity?

Dave Sykes is my nomination for a real genuine public award for a person who has overcome his disability and achieved a wonderful adventure flying such a small aircraft from the UK to Australia.

No big hotels,support team, flight following aircraft or high end hotels.

Dave is a real adventurer but sadly lacks the big sponsors. It would be interesting to see Tracey fly this in another microlight alongside him

http://www.polarflight.co.uk/images/...s/picture7.png

In my opinion the LAA and the HCAP have not been honest and upfront in trying to brush this sad affair under the carpet.

Jay SataCan you post, or provide a link to, any evidence that TCT is "rich and wealthy"?
She undoubtedly raised an enormous amount of money in sponsorship ("about a £million" she said recently) and obtained other support which would have cost a fortune if she'd had to pay for it. That is very different from being personally "rich and wealthy."TCT was well-financed (see above) and is undoubtedly 'socially connected' now.
Can you post, or provide a link to, any evidence that she was 'socially connected' before these flights?
I readily understand why many people might share your view - even more so if they wrongly believe that last year's Master awarded her a Master's Medal for a 'solo' flight.

What Steve Slater actually said was:As you are well aware, TCT was not awarded a Master's Medal for a ‘Feat of Navigation’.

I have never done, nor am I ever likely to do, any flying that would come even close to meriting any award. However, I do know a great deal about advocacy and I've watched with interest in various threads on this topic as you consistently ruin valid points by endless repetition and by introducing often silly extraneous matters.
As comedian Frank Carson used to say, "It's the way I tell 'em!"
There's another side to that coin which you illustrate well: You manage to irritate people who actually agree with your basic point.
If you could lose your chip about wealthy people (which, as far as I'm aware, TCT is not) and keep your message simple, restricting yourself to incontrovertible facts, you are far more likely to be taken seriously and not dismissed as some crank with a bee in his bonnet.


(Edit)

There you go again.
I have no idea where she stayed, but does it matter?
Should where a pilot stayed during a long international flight be a factor taken into account when deciding whether he/she deserves an award?
What have you done about it?
It's pointless nominating him here. PPRuNe doesn't give awards.

In answer to your edited post -

I have never suggested that she had a hard time.

I don't think it does.
I don't know anyone who does.

There you go again. :rolleyes:


And your subsequent post -

I thought she flew a Shuttleworth aircraft.
If she didn't, I stand corrected.

Why do you ask me to do that? :confused:
I'm not a member of the organisation which gave her that award.
I'd be interested to learn how they justify it.

I have already told you, in other threads, why TCT was awarded the Master's Medal.
If you were less blinkered you might have noticed that I gave you the facts - no more, no less.

Thanks for admitting she never flew a Shuttleworth aircraft. Her website claims have been clever in their wording.

The Stearman used for all her flights was housed at Shuttleworth. She obviously did fly it there but that does not give her the status of being a museum pilot.

I asked you about the LAA Bill Woodham award as I assume you know and talk to Steve Slater who is the CEO of the LAA but also a member of the HCAP? It appears you would like to know how they justified it but it appears it was awarded before the facts were known. Steve seems to agree there are issues. Can I suggest a reappraisal of the info presented to the LAA and the HCAP and you all convene before this makes the national press?

Let me ask you a direct question...do you think Tracey Curtis Taylor flew as a solo pilot the Artemis sponsored Stearman from the UK to Sydney as portrayed by the national and international press?

When you have your awards banquet later in the year will you all be happy to give this prestigious Masters Medal to someone who clearly had another person on board as depicted in global news pictures?

Will all of you in the HCAP agree...she deserved it?

Or will you convene and reassess the possibility you just might have been conned?

On a lighter note........... Judith's little Jodel G-BDIH is still flying in the hand of Duncan Cotter at Full Sutton.
A bit like Trigger's brush after a couple of whoopsies, but how many of that age aren't?

Jay SataDo you really think people on an aviation website didn't already know that?
See my earlier comments about sponsorship. I admit I'm flabbergasted by that.
What's happened to your communication skills since the 1980s?
Perhaps. I was brought up in Wales very near the mining valleys, have a house there and visit regularly.
We disagree about the relevance of personal wealth in this context.
I have no reason to believe that TCT is personally wealthy but she is clearly extremely good at raising sponsorship.

Yes, I know Steve Slater. I haven't seen him for about 18 months and have no reason to contact him to discuss the LAA award.
I'm curious about it, not obsessed with it.It's taking a long time to do so, in any country. As far as I'm aware, only a small circulation media outlet in Canada has questioned the 'solo' aspects of TCT's flights. You might have had more success if you restricted yourself to incontrovertible facts, presented coherent focused arguments and avoided making unfounded assertions which are demonstrably untrue.
If you took the trouble to digest what people say you would not need to ask that question.
My response to you as long ago as the 29th April began with this:My response to you on the 5th May included this:I told you on the 29th April:The Court (governing body) of the Air Pilots was fully aware that it was not a solo flight when it ratified the (then) Master's decision.




ak7274That's good.
The (leased) C210 in which she set/broke so many records in 1980 was destroyed just a few years later.

Mr Lawyer sir,


I appreciate you responding on an open forum which is quickly turning into a lion's den. As a point of reference, we both know one woman who is a helicopter pilot and it is a privilege to count her as a friend. Another woman was my main instructor and she now has a very successful career flying what could be argued to be one of the most iconic routes in commercial aviation. Today, these are very normal situations so I question the need to call out any achievement where the possession of a pair of ovaries is a deciding factor.


Getting back to the point, it appears that TCT's endeavour in highlighting women in aviation is not all that it seems. Would you not agree that taking along a qualified pilot in the front cockpit plus a number of men in a second aircraft rather detracts from demonstrating that women can fly solo for long distances ? A team effort of getting a biplane half way around the world is an achievement but in my view, does not merit any award.

Yes.
Not that it needed demonstrating. Several women have already done so - solo in every sense. (And pre GPS.) Some of them have been mentioned in this thread.


In the various threads on this topic, I have explained the rationale behind the Air Pilots' award, and corrected some of Jay Sata's absurd claims about the organisation.
I haven't expressed any opinion either way about the award, and won't.

I suspect F.L. is helping by saying two things.

Make your points accurately and succinctly, so as -

a) Not to bring your own views into disrepute.

and

b) Not to lay yourself open to a libel action from rich & powerful folk.

mike hallam

Thank you, Marchettiman, for mentioning Judith Chisholm. With just about every other female flyer being mentioned whenever the press, both aviation and public, talks about women pilots, she seems to have been airbrushed from aviation history. Her achievements were astounding, not the least of which was using a roll of paper around two dowels with her entire route drawn on it which, as the flight proceeded, she unrolled from one dowel to the other.
If anyone feels like sharing any memories of this remarkable woman with me I'd love to hear from you. My email is [email protected] which perhaps is better to use than clogging up the forum.
Nigel (Stokes)

Biplane adventurer Tracey Curtis-Taylor crashes in Arizona desert - BBC News

Two things that I found strange? How did the plane get to America, last time I heard it was in Australia. Don't answer that I know it was in a container. So its not really flying around the world and who was flying the plane when they had the power loss.

I know its just sour grapes, but still.

About GPS use. I know it has taken the challenge out of Navigation, but on the way to Australia our plane had a range of about 360 sm and we had to do a flight to a tiny atol in the Timor Sea about 1,000 meter long 400 meters wide. Traughton island, there was a runway on it and more fuel. It was 320 from Timor. We could not have been sure of making the flight without the GPS on board. So it takes away the challenge of Navigation, but opens up the opportunities to fly small aircraft around the world with little budget. We wouldn't have left home without the GPS, because we couldn't have got to Australia.

I've written an article in the June addition of Pilot about touring and all the misconceptions of planning and costs. Blag a copy and have a read.

Colin H.

KR2 World Tour

Nigelthepilot

I agree entirely with your comments about Judith Chisholm. I have no idea why that is.

London 18 Nov 1980
Cyprus 19 Nov
Sri Lanka 20 Nov
Jakarta 21 Nov
Port Hedland, WA 22-23 Nov
Sydney 24-25 Nov
Auckland 26-28 Nov (Where she was welcomed on arrival by the great Jean Batten, whose record she had broken.)
Honolulu, 29-30 Nov
San Francisco, 1 Dec
Winnipeg, 2 Dec
Goose Bay, 2 Dec
London 3 Dec

All solo.

Judith died in 1988, just a few days after her 41st birthday.
I don't know if it's available on the net but you may be interested in 'Stardust: Judith Margaret Chisholm - A Memoir' written by Judith's mother Audrey Lowe, circa 2000. I would have offered to lend you my copy but I lent it to someone years ago, haven't seen it since and can't now remember who it was.
Marchettiman is only an occasional visitor to PPRuNe. I'll pass on your message. He knew Judith far better than I did.


mike hallam

You can lead a horse to water ………. ;)

Hi FL
What my chum Nigel omitted to say was that he was the custodian of G-BDIH for many, many years after Judith died, culminating in a total rebuild about 7 years ago. (See G-INFO for a couple of nice photos).
Ownership has now passed to a gentleman in Yorkshire who no doubt is very pleased with this delightful aeroplane.
Best wishes,
Chris

offensive remarks-
 

Okay guys, let me first set out my credentials. I am NOT an "aviatrix", I am a pilot. Been flying since 1983; with 1,400 hours power and an IR, and tug pilot; and 1,800 hours in gliders, flying as an instructor and in competition, and managed to achieve 3 diamonds in a Single Seat pegasus glider (nobody hiding in there!), with a distance of 511 kilometers, staying airborne and finishing the task in 8 hours and 53 minutes. And in Scotland, the gain of height from low point of 20,300 feet. Try that without an engine, you numpties!

For B. Fraser to call attention to women posessing a pair of ovaries is in very poor taste. Does he flaunt his equipment to prove his gender? I would be happy to see that thoughtless remark eliminated.

I have included a brief history of six amazing women.

Sophie Blanchard had to carry on flying her husband's hydrogen balloon after he died of a heart attack in Paris in 1809. She flew display solo for ten years before fireworks set fire to the hydrogen.

Harriet Quimby was the first woman to gain a US pilot's license, and the first woman to fly SOLO across the English Channel.

Amy Johnson flew SOLO (and there are photos to prove it!) in her Gypsy Moth from Croydon, leaving the 5th of May and arriving in Darwin Australia on May 24. She flew warplane deliveries for the ATA, but did not survive the war.

Ann Welch, OBE, flew routine deliveries for the ATA of Hurricanes, Spitfires, and Blenhiem Bombers. She married and raised two daughters while engaged in this service....then went on to organising the London Gliding Club, and Lasham, and also was key in building a framework for the development of flexwing personal aircraft in the UK. She died in 2002.

Marina Raskova, Antonov Record Holder, organised the Nachthexten, regiments of Soviet women pilots who were given very ancient fighter planes to fly over German camps and drop the bomb load to spoil their rest....only two very small bombs could be carried! but the invaders didn't like it

and Hanna Reitsch, the first female helicopter pilot, displayed the new heli regularly every day for three weeks at the International Auto Show, INSIDE the exhibition hall. She was also the first woman to fly jets, the ME262 and HE162. She also was the only test pilot light enough to test the V-1 rocket.
She survived the war.

Harriet Quimby's Channel Crossing largely went unremarked, as unfortunately the Titanic sank the previous day, which rather dominated the headlines.

I had the privilege of knowing Ann Welch quite well for the last 10ish years of her life - she was, and remains, an enormous inspiration to me personally. One of the things that few knew about her (and Ann doubtless never saw it as anything special) is that she was one of the greatest polymaths I have ever met. Aside from her aviation achievements, and management achievements, she was also a highly accomplished artist, and she was a highly successful published author, and she tutored writing at the local college, and she was a highly regarded naturalist.

One of many AW stories - the supply is near endless. When she was president of FAI, she was off to a meeting in Europe somewhere, flying on a scheduled airliner. She asked one of the cabin crew, if she could have a cockpit visit - giving her name and saying she was very interested in aviation (now there's an understatement, if ever there was one). The stewardess went off to the cockpit bemused by this request from a rather elderly lady. She came back looking extremely impressed - "Mrs Welch, the Captain sends his compliments, and if you wouldn't mind his thanking you in person for his first flying lesson in a glider when he was 16, you'd be welcome to spend the rest of the flight in the cockpit jumpseat".


Eric Brown once described Hanna Reitsch in my hearing with the phrase "brilliant pilot, dreadful woman".

G

Fascinating interviews with Hanna Reitch here.
https://youtu.be/4vxxHyl46co

Solo around the world flight.
 

On a lighter note and to jump on the bandwagon, does this mean my solo, budget around the world flight is not solo either? Dam!

https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7779/2...55bc68fac4.jpg

Kr2worldtour.com

As everybody knows you can't actually get two people in a KR2 with more than three instruments in it - I reckon you're on safe ground there old boy.

G

Agreeing with each other on PPRuNe isn’t going to achieve anything.

Writing to the Master, asking why someone who has made false claims about flying solo should be honoured by an Honourable Company might.

Attaching the photograph of her speaking in Seattle would make the point very clearly.

Captain Peter Benn
Honourable Company of Air Pilots
Cobham House
9 Warwick Court
Gray's Inn
London WC1R 5DJ

Or email to Captain Peter Benn: [email protected]

Thanks for the heads up on Judith Chisholm, must confess not familiar with the Lady. She certainly didn't waste any time on her round the world FL.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/wo...famous-flights

Mary,


My comment was not intended to cause offence, only to point out that in this day and age we thankfully live in a liberal democracy and the possession of a bumpy chest is irrelevant. The individual is important and not their chromosomes. It doesn't matter if their gonads are tucked away or hang outside. Your posting underlines my point very well in that women have achieved a great deal without their gender being a factor. I would add Lettice Curtis to your list. An awesome individual who happened to be a woman but had her achievements been completed in the modern era, I would not consider her gender to have had any relevance. You may well disagree but I think that a meaningful goal for feminism is for gender not to be counted when handing out praise. The measure of a liberal democracy is that we should all be judged equally and not on our skin colour, favourite sky pixie or who / what you take to bed.


That equal judgement extends to the definitions of "alone" and "solo flying". It would be interesting to see TCT's log book and if "Solo" was entered against the flights.