Handling Agents for light GA?
 

OK, It's years since I flew into Liverpool, and recently looked at stopping there to pick up a passenger. The information on line is not very illuminating, but on enquiry they have taken every potential opportunity to charge additional fees.

Landing fee is £23.20
Handling fee is £31.15
Departing passenger fee £10.05
In addition all prices are plus VAT.
Total is £77.28

Further parking charges apply if your stay exceeds 2 hours.

I asked what I got for the money.....
"On arrival aircraft will be giving marshalling assistance for parking.
Transport to and from our facility.
Tea/coffee for crew and full stocked bar for passenger, lounge to wait for passenger or for the passenger to wait for you.
Assistance with book out.
Anything else you need we can normal arrange. Transport catering accommodation, restaurant bookings."

So, hang on a minute. I get a bloke in a yellow jacket waving bats to park me, a lift across an apron, and a departure area where I have the opportunity for them to extract more money if I actually want to avail myself of their beverage opportunities.

Or to put it another way, £53 of this fee goes to the cost of a HiVis, a coffee and a piss.
Is there an alternative?

Hi,

I'm guessing that's LAS? Handling agents at most commercial airports are generally pretty steep, that is true. Departing passenger fee does sound a bit like a way of screwing you for a bit of extra cash in the case of a simple small aircraft/one passenger movement. Not sure if this is an airport or FBO charge? If it's the FBO, I guess if you were to try to justify such a fee, an FBO such as LAS is geared up for bizjet-type handling where if there are a number of passengers it can significantly increase the workload for the handlers (multiple vehicles for pax transport, escorting personal cars on and off the apron, luggage handling, taking pax through immigration etc. where required for international flights). Defining a one-size-fits-all pricing structure can therefore be tricky; every movement is different. A fee-per-passenger is, I suppose, a compromise. Also bear in mind that although all you may require is to park, use the loo, pick up passenger and go, a lot of the handling agent's customers are a lot more demanding - fuel, hotel bookings, 'interesting' catering requests, de-icing, toilet servicing, forklifts, ground power, freight handling, chauffeur/coach bookings... Ok, these may be have their own associated charges, but it's ultimately the same small team who will be responsible for co-ordinating the whole affair.

In LAS's defence, having sampled most agents around the UK, I'd probably say their prices are comparable for the type of operation/airport in question. I'd also make a point of saying that they are one of the very very few who will invariably offer to give you a lift straight from the aircraft to the hotel and back (assuming it's reasonably local), or out to the shop/restaurant/terminal etc. to grab a bite to eat, without whacking an extra charge on the bill. Ok, it may seem a small gesture but if it saves you £15 in a taxi which is quite often the only option then it will go some way to recoup some of the fee.

Having said that, I know that certainly at one point it was possible to ask one of the flying schools for handling - Helicentre rings a bell? That may work out as a cheaper option but I'm not sure what exactly they will provide - I guess this may be the most suitable option if you are a light GA type and don't require much looking after. Worth a phone call at least if it saves a few quid.

Hope that's of use?
A38

I try to avoid large airfields that call themselfs airports some have handling agents who charge for doing next to nothing no doubt encouraged by an airfield management who see their small local airport as Heathrow in their own self impotent way, all you need now is to add the yogurt police and you have the perfect toxic mixture for a really bad day full of stupid rules that are applied in a way to cause the maximum difficulty for the pilot and boost the ego of petty officials.

Last time into Liverpool we went to 'visit' the flying school there. google has the contact info.

we parked beside their portacabin and were escorted out to the public side.
Very friendly bunch, and well worth contacting in advance.
Fionn

If you get an Escort for the price I am fine with it, but suspect they won't be that pretty at the pice tag :hmm: ...

We used to go Liverpool for PPL navigation flights, as has been said you could arrange to go to one of the flying schools to park and pay the landing fee (no handling). After about a year or so of doing this quite happily, the handling agent noticed they were losing the rip-off fee, complained to the Airport and Peel banned the flying schools from doing it any longer. So we just stopped going there, airport loses the landing fees (don't suppose they'll miss that amount though), handling company doesn't get any extra income from us, we have to find somewhere else to go. No winners really, all down to the greed of the handling agents. I seem to recall it was Ravenair at the time, I think LAS is just a brand that is part of Ravenair.

Does that include the one I dropped you at in June?

I like self-impotent, even if that's not what you meant!

If you think Liverpool is bad, this is the reply that I got from the GA handling agent at Edinburgh when I enquired about visiting in my Kitfox:


"The cost for ground handling for this aircraft will be £127.

On top of this we are also obliged to charge the following on behalf of the airport:

Departure Charge: £60 (Increasing to £155 during "Peak hours" which are 0600-0900 and 1600-1800.)

Parking Charge: £0.07 per quarter hour

Navigation Charge: £10

Security Charge £50

If you were to stay for two hours this would amount to a total of £247.56."

I therefore contacted Edinburgh flying club but was told:


"Unfortunately, the airport requires any visiting aircraft to be handled by Signature, so sadly there is no way to avoid their charges."


I subsequently raised these ridiculously high charges with the Chief Executive but he basically blamed the handling agent.


Needless to say, I did not visit Edinburgh Airport!

And you guys think you had it bad!

I landed in Schiphol airport last year, and they charged €375 for landing fee, tower fee, ATC fee, immigration and parking for less than 4hours in a piper arrow. They arranged a follow me car from the apron to the parking spot, a Marshaller to help us park on the yellow line into the stand, picked us up for the whole 30seconds drive into the jet terminal, and then arranged us a taxi to get into town. On the way back they had a nice booklet with instructions, frequencies, and so forth, and a ride to the plane.

It was an amazing experience, to be able to mix with the big boys, their procedure of doing a threshold join at 500' was particularly fun too, and the experience as a whole was pretty surreal. Although when I requested a preferred area for runup - they seemed a little baffled to say the least...

When I heard that there was also a eurocontrol charge levied for another £15 or so, I was a little livid... But hey! Once in a lifetime experience I guess. But in all honesty, I cannot help but feel that it really shouldn't have cost more than €100.

Talking of which does anyone know where to land relatively cheaply near Stockholm?

And you wonder why Edinburgh flying club is closing down.

All airports that charge ridiculous handling fees and outrageous landing fees for smaller aircraft should be boycotted, allow the impact maybe small for some of the airports and handling agents thats not the point, its the principle.

Little point in boycotting such places I'm afraid. It's fairly evident that they simply don't want GA in the first instance.

Do we have a chance to really change that madness? I guess only by a revolution. Craziest fee I was charged in Europe was Frankfurt airport with well over 800 quid for a PA28 just dropping a passenger and less 30 mins on the ground. As the passenger wanted and paid it was worth it, but why did they abandon the idea of "hubs" in aviation and erased all opportunities for seamless integration of all travels?

I agree - it is a lost battle. I am a little baffled as to why they don't want to cater for us... I mean - how difficult is it to have a few parking stands for GA close to the boundary fence with a big arrow saying "go this way to pay and exit", and then go in, pay landing fees and maybe £20 for the privilege of using their toilet / letting them call a cab for you / sorting out your booking out. The amount of work required is SO minimal, and the profits are just that great! You could get 10 planes a day as opposed to 1 plane a week (if that).

I couldn't agree more. Shame really! I don't see us being such a hinderance on their operations, if anything, we're the easy customers! But perhaps the jet customers don't want to mix with us? (need to polish our shoes :P)

Forfoxake, you should have asked if you could do your own navigation. That would have saved you a tenner.

:p

I am not sure on this but I know in Italy handling was compulsory but what is handling.
You cannot have pilots walking from aircraft unattended and airports either have to offer a service to collect and deposit you at the aircraft or designate a handling agent agents to perform that duty.

We were collected by the airport and told we had to use a handling agent who wanted to charge a fortune on top.
The Airport collected us not the handling agent so what was the $500 Euro for? use of a reception area?

We argued that by collecting us we were infact meeting their requirements for handling and they backed off
The same applies to Ostend where I go a lot we use the airport handling not the handling agent based there.
So make sure you legally have to use an agent and its not just jobs for the boys

Pace

Tim
 

The airports on islands are normally quite good because they realise that the islands economy requires good communications with the rest of the world an so operate with the minimum of petty rules.

The place you dropped me last year is a good example of good service at a reasonable price.

I however can't be responsible for the predictive text....... It is a mystery to me how is sometimes comes up with an unintended correct answer !

In comparison I recall my visit to Dinan, (not Dinard). We landed, parked up alongside a mixed line of planes and cars. Went to see the Control Tower to pay, and he said "It's lunch time, let's go and eat and we can talk about it in an hour or two's time".

Guess how many Hi Vis vests I saw that day?........

I really must return to that place.

Was it the one you were wearing? (haha)

I've done quite a few flights to / in France, rarely have I see anyone with a high viz, even at rather big airports and guess what? I am yet to see anyone get run over, or accidentally get hit by an aeroplane!!

I can understand its requirement at night, especially at smaller aerodromes without flood lights. You hear someone shouting clear prop, not having a clue where they are, and boom its the plane right in front of you!

Jeepers what is it with you guys. Amsterdam. Heathrow, Frankfurt are not GA Airfields!! Their cost levels are not the same as the airfield that mows the grass a couple of times a month and isn't so busy that it needs a slot system.

You are flying into busy commercial airports that have to provide a very costly infrastructure, and maintain a very costly infrastructure. The MD of EDI was being a tad devious in trying to blame the GHA, as the GHA is no doubt paying an exhorbitant fee to the airport for the privilege of being there!

These are businesses not charities, and they have to generate money for the business. Your Cherokee or Cirrus is not going to make a ha'porth of difference in the grand scheme. I love the idea that it is thought that by taking in one passenger every blue moon you are providing a hub operation!

Direct your ire towards the airfield grabbing developers and local councils who are closing airfields that DO want your business, such as Wellesbourne and Old Sarum and many others. More support for these might have made a difference to their survival, but one passenger in and empty out is not wanted at LHR or FRA where that movement could be an A380 with 500 in and 500 out, or even Liverpool where it could be an A320 with 155 in and 155 out.

Ever been to Liverpool SN?
On tomorrow's schedule that are 12 arrivals due in the morning. That is, between opening up and midday.
Perhaps it's the LACK of traffic that has meant that they seek to get cost returns from anyone and anywhere.
Anyway, it wasn't the landing fee per se that was the grumble. The £25 or so was expected. It's the other £50 for the privilege of having a ping pong bat waved at me.