Is booking out a legal requirement?
 

Anyone know? It is a source of constant discussion at my club.
If it is legal what is the definition?

This subject has come up often over the years. As far as I am aware there is no 'legal' requirement for booking out. However, you may find that booking in/out is in the t & c's of the club 'if' you are a member.

From my personal experience, the few times that I have forgotten to book out the issue is usually raised by known jobsworths.

No legal requirement. It may be stipulated by the airfield operator - and they are likely to have good reasons for this such as conditions in their planning consent or the like.

Back in the early 90's there was a certain vertically challenged and freshly minded FI at Perth who used march around with a clipboard who appeared to take great delight in demanding and challenging owners upon their return from flying as to correct entries in the sign-out sheet, inspite of the fact it was not his job or business. One day he hassled me and I asked him why he had such a bug up his ass about the sheet. He informed me that it was necessary as if there was anyone smuggling drugs he would have a log of the flights and he could relay this info to the cops, I pointed out that if indeed there was any smuggling going on the traffickers were hardly going to sign his shytee wee book.He never took much to do with me after that, I always felt the guys talents were being squandered teaching folks how to fly, he was far more suited for the guard tower at Bergen Belsen.

Who would an acrft owner at his own strip book out with?

Anyone who might care if s/he didn't come back when expected? Wife/husband/etc?

Yes, that goes without saying, but, still doesn't satisfy any perceived legal requirement.

This whole ridiculous invasion of privacy (Why should I have tell anyone where I am going unless crossing an FIR? This should be my choice.

It was all brought about I believe by Michael Bentines son going missing for a long time. Typical kneejerk reaction we have over here, just look at the shambles following Dunblane. the only people left in the country with a handgun now are the scores of criminals, after thousands had their legitimate and highly regulated hobby destroyed.

The Bentine thing was incorporated into the rules of the air clause 20(depending upon your interpretation).

Under SERA there does not seem to be an exact read across - which given the arrangements in Germany is surprising - but that I suppose is covered by the Aerodrome permissions part of things (unless Germany has posted a list of exemptions as we have!).

There actually is a legal requirement (brought about by the above mentioned 'Bentine' story) for you to leave basic details of your intended flight with a 'responsible person'. Additionally, some airport operators require you to 'book out' for each flight, in some cases by telephone in advance, but most accept an RTF call.
Don't forget that military 'booking out' differs from the civil version in that your details will be passed to your destination and they will be told when you are airborne.

What is "booking out"? I have never come across anything by that name. Then again again, I've never flown in the UK, so it might well be just another...

I do am used, though, to closing the flight plan (if any), and writing down the landing in the aerodrome logbook (if any). Plus completing the entries in my pilot's log and in the plane's log.

You're right Jan, it is a very British thing directly due to political influence from a bereaved father.

But the question is - does SERA and its British embodiment still have that requirement - I've had a look and I cannot see it!

Is this a gold plate removal - even if accidental?

Thank you, Gasax, but after reading more thoroughly I am not so sure. What DOES it mean, after all? Leaving some notification of where you intend to fly before take-off? Filing a flight plan includes that info, and a good deal more. Even when not filing a flight plan, I am supposed to mention my destination in the aerodrome log before take-off.

France has no such aerodrome logs, but I think Germany does have them. Holland must have them too, they have just about everything to discourage one from private flying.

In Canada, we don't have "booking out" It's none of anyone's business when and where you fly, unless you are requesting access to controlled airspace. If you are required to file a flight plan, or flight notification, you are responsible for closing it too. But this rarely has anything to do with an airport, or operator, unless you chose them as your "responsible person".

The nearest I know of is "Booking it", which can either mean "but the ticket [for a commercial flight]" or, run or drive very quickly [to escape], seemingly a teenager term, 'cause I guess they need to escape every now and then...

Based at a full ATC airfield, I have to book-out by telephoning ATC before my radio call for taxi permission." Land-away" and I give my destination. "Local" otherwise. I give endurance, duration, and number on board. I'm then free to go wherever I want in Class G airspace. Local can be 2 hours + at 100kts, with no requirement to talk to anyone once away from the airfield.
Our Group have a log sheet which we use to record T/O, Land, time and airfield, - but when operating from a strip I've carried the sheet in the aircraft - which would not be helpful if I disappeared.

It certainly used to be, this from an old "Guide to Visual Flight Rules (VFR) in the UK"

Whether it's been included in the Standardised European Rules Of The Air (SERA) Regulation I am not quite sure but I guess you'd find it there if it is.

This from another:-

Legislation aside I think it is common sense to "Book Out".

There used to be a requirement to 'Book in/out' but I suspect that when we adopted the Single European Rules of the Air it got lost in the transition.

Best thing to do here is just call a friend (responsible person) tell them that you intend to fly, text them the details, with the Tel. No. for D&D, (we all know what that is, don't we?) and ask them to raise the alarm if you don't call them back by an agreed time.

Or there's always the 'note under a stone' at the departure method. At least anyone investigating your disappearance might then have a chance of finding out who you were, and your intentions.


MJ:ok:

So if I "book" out at airfield "A" to fly to airfield "B" who at "B" would know I am en-route as no PPR required, and who at "A" would know or care I haven't arrived at "B"

As I don't fly in straight lines but take scenic routes via coaslines etc who would know where to start looking anyway?

Pointless & nanny state mentality.

I never cease to be amazed by the eccentricities of British aviation.

When I first saw the title of the thread I thought it must have something to do with an insurance company's requirement that an instructor sign out an aircraft to a flying club member or to a student pilot training solo. That's fairly standard procedure in this part of the world.

& you should see some of the eccentrics they let do it :}

PA28181 summed it up very nicely but that's probably anathema to people that still use terms such as round-out and overshoot...

I feel the same way about some of the idiosyncrasies associated with flying in Australia.

Some of us will recall the case of Michael Bentine's son who went missing in 1971.

They had not "booked out" and Bentine who was a well known comedian was very vocal about this aspect.

I can't understand why anyone would not want to book out (or whatever you want to call it). When I say this I'm not talking about unmanned landing strips but places where this a presence in the form of A/G, AFISO or even ATC.

Surely it's common sense to let someone know what you intend to do and how many are on board etc?

@Jan: yes, Holland requires the aerodromes to log about everything... including intended destination. But then again, intentions could change mid flight, so it's a total waste of effort. All of the aerodromes that I know of log pilot names as well, although I'm not sure if that is actually required or they do it because more logging is better right? Some aerodromes even want to know the passenger names...

Well I had a second look at SERA and still cannot find the requirement, so it probably did die in the translation.

As for it being 'common sense'? Who do you 'tell' Fine if it is a full service aerodrome (and SERA does require the equivalent of booking out there) but the average strip?

Remember this requirement came in at a time when if you had a well equipped aircraft it had a 360ch radio and probably no transponder. Gadgets like EPIRBs or PLBs were science fiction - as indeed were mobile phones!

Those technologies make the old requirement look pretty daft.

gasax, I did post:-

It looks like it has done.

True but even modern technology can fail and radar coverage is limited at lower level especially in the valleys of places like Scotland. Also not all a/c are equipped with radio, not every pilot carries PLBs and batteries can deplete on mobile phones.

No problem if you want to file a flight plan every time you fly, however, in the absence of a FP are you religiously going to inform every airfield you are flying to, of your route, POB and ETA, nah.....

But that isn't "booking out" which is merely informing the aerodrome operator how long you intend to be airborne in the event of a local flight or where you intend to land if landing away.

There are some airports which will not accept booking out on the radio and they do indeed require details such as endurance and POB.

I don't understand why anyone would find booking out (or whatever you want to call it) so difficult which can only be in the interests of all on board the aircraft.

Well I believe that filing a FP does indeed constitute "booking out", the only benefit to "booking out" as you have identified is if you are on a local, with no intention to land away. Then yes maybe some kind of "overdue" action could be taken but not if it's A/G?, as I said unless the destination is fully aware of your POB, route & ETA then forget any O/D action being taken as the departure airfield will not be ringing up to ensure you have landed safely.

An archaic requirement that needs removing under "Red Tape".

Filing a FP does constitute booking out.

With respect I don't think it is quite as simple as that. I agree that no formal overdue action can/would be taken.

However let's say a pilot does not return home to his nearest and dearest at the expected time because they've had an engine failure and forced landed enroute and been injured etc. Next of kin would call the airfield to enquire whereabouts. If the pilot had booked out then further enquiries could be made at the destination airfield and if necessary the authorities informed. OK I agree it's not the same as filing a FP but rather than being an archaic requirement or red tape I still think it is common sense. What specifically is the objection to doing it?

Very simple, there is a tendency about that implies if your against something like this your are obviously against "safety" and should be treated as a pariah.

As has been said this "requirement" only came about because someone with influence in political circles bent a few ears. No one is required to know when I get in my car, sail a boat, drive a power boat, launch myself of a cliff in a hang glider, go walking or multitudes of other activities.

I do not accept that some one who just sits in a room with a radio has the right to know my personal details of where I am going, lets hear from those who are at the other end of the radio tell us what they do with this information of where we are flying too, and once the words "changing to xxxxx" are spoken, then are they at the least bit concerned about my welfare I doubt it.

PA28181,

So if you happened to go missing, and you were lying injured on a cold frosty hillside, would you expect the emergency services to go looking for you?

Where do they start, at the departure airfield and look 5 miles either side of a track that could be 200m long that they have no idea of direction I am taking. I would expect to receive all the services required if it happens and some good soul spots the accident and has a mobile same as whichever ground station I am working/listening to and I yell over the radio will let the world know I need help, just as I would if I fell off a push bike. If booking out gives some, a cosy warm feeling that all of the air traffic services are waiting to hit the crash alarm as soon as they are in trouble so be it, I live in the real world of known risk, and act accordingly.

Um, yes? Wouldn't talking to radar units along that route be helpful? - it usually seems to work for post-crash analysis.

And all that happens in the "Golden Hour" of first aid.

Cosy warm feeling I'm getting.:)

It seems that the theme of the discussion has shifted to "would you like someone to watch over you while you fly?".

For myself, I see that as a personal preference, either choice deserving respect. The minute you take "innocent" passengers, you owe it to them to take all precautions in their favour. If you're by yourself in Canada, within 25 miles of where you took off, there is no requirement to tell anyone you went anywhere. Farther than that, flight notification requirements apply.

Personally, for my solo flying, it's none of anyone's business where I come and go. My wife knows where I am, and whom to call, if I'm not where I should be. When I lived alone, with the plane in my back yard, I certainly did not look for anyone to tell I was going flying, I just went. If I crashed, well, that's what I keep an ELT in service for! Now, with cell phone, two different portable radios, a SPOT, still the ELT, and a wife who likes to have a rough idea where I am, I feel pretty secure. As for lying in a crashed plane in the freezing cold, I dress for it before I fly. I don't worry about going for a walk, drive, or ATV ride alone, why would I worry any more about flying alone? My personal best for being alone in the plane, was camping last summer in Labrador, where I believe that I was 93 miles form the nearest other person. But, with a sat phone, and two independent ways to be found, I did not worry! A flight plan really does not work well up there, 'cause unless the sat phone works, you cannot open and close it anyway... I like sat phones, but I would never depend upon one!

When I take my 11 year old daughter camping in the plane, my wife knows, daughter has the cell phone, knows how to activate the SPOT, and has instructions as to how to use the portable radio to ask for help. Similarly, any other passenger gets a briefing, and someone (I choose) knows where we're going.

If an aerodrome wanted to know every time I took off, I would politely say that they are welcomed to look out the window and watch, but writing it down or telling anyone, is an intrusion upon my privacy! Sort of like the rules of listening to public radio transmissions, listen all you want, but do not record or divulge!

So personally, I would rise against what I now understand as a requirement to "book out" when flying my plane. But, that is just my personal preference, and not intended to sway anyone elses preference....

or the reverse "nobody should know what or where or how I intend to fly and anybody curious about that is infringing upon my privacy"

That feeling is quite alive among a part of the Belgian microlight fliers. I once heard a story of a long planned group flight abroad, so that in a strictly legal sense filing a flight plan was required. Yet when one participant actually did so, another promptly quit the party, saying that he wouldn't fly in the company of people who didn't respect the proper microlight spirit.

I'm sure that same feeling exists elsewhere too; though it seems to me it is on the recline.

To be really safe you should never even think of not wearing your hi-vis vest when engaging in any activity on an airport, the hi-vis vest is number one priority in my opinion.

Yes, of course. In addition to confusing rules, petty but determined and invasive do-gooders, discussions about the exact way in which one should obey rules (if it can be determined what they are), and on-site comments that other participants are "not short a quid or two" all aviation activity must surely include appropriate fancy dress. ;) Preferably brightly colored and festive uniforms, of which the reflective vest is a perfect example.

You've missed one, however.

As well as

- not booking out
- not wearing hi-ris
- turning off the transponder

if you really don't want people to know what you're up to you mustn't forget to

- paint a fake reg on your aircraft (just covering up the real one doesn't hack it, that'll look suspicious)

and of course you need to turn off all your phones/iToys ect ect.

And when you've done all that ... you'll be all set up for your drug- or people-smuggling run!

Speaking as an ex SAR pilot, I can assure you that narrowing the search area even slightly increases the chances of success. The point you are perhaps failing to see is that by widening the area of uncertainty, the resources tied up searching are greatly increased. All at tax payers expense of course, not that of the individual in question.

First of all - there can only be one set of 'rules of the air'. The 2007 rules have been replaced by SERA. There is a listing on the CAA website of what are referred to as 'retained rules' left overs of the 2007 rules of the air that the CAA has decided to retain. Booking out is not one of them!


As for most of the other comments, there is a massive lack of logic - I have a 760 channel radio, a mode c transponder, a PLB and a mobile phone.

If I need anyone to know where I am I have 4 methods which pinpoint me. I fly in the highlands and believe me there are many, many more people in the hills than you would think. One accident I am aware of the pictures were posted on the internet before the guys even got back to the airfield.....

Booking out is a classic 'small persons' response to a near non-existant problem.

Hey posters, this is a worthwhile discussion, which I'm happy to see continue. But, bits are being lost, as I'm editing out some seemingly personal attacks.

Please play the ball, not the player...