Its on my last resort unless we are going to die diversion list for me.

You might not be able to understand a word the refueler is saying in liverpool but at least he turns up pretty quick and doesn't act like he is doing you a favour selling you fuel.

And there speaks a Scot....:)

A very sad day indeed. The book link below is well worth a read.....from an era where Blackpool airport was a very friendly place to visit. John Kilburn was one of the people that fuelled my interest in ATC and from which subsequently became my career....now, and after 42 years in the job I still enjoy every day I spend at work and to be honest I have Johnny to thank for that.Let's hope soon Blackpool will once again Be a top place to visit like it was in the late 60's early 70's. :cool:

Another update from Westair

Westair, Blackpool - Blackpool Airport News

8 slots a day a hour each? 48hrs PPR gotta hope this really is just temporary measures!!!

Hard to believe a city of 150 thousand can't support or doesn't justify a mixed GA and CAT airport, I used to spent time up in rural Alaska in the 90's and was impressed how shyitey wee fishing towns used to have at least 1 scheduled service of a 737 several times a week, I doubt if they were subsidized.

Shame really.

Edit to add, just bought that john kilburn book of Amazon, looking forward to what looks likes like an interesting read.

And why on earth do they need that when there are loads of GA airfields with significatly more movements than blackpool who can survive without slots and an AG radio. Sherburn for example.

Looks like they haven't got rid of all the idiots on closure.

Maybe they are scared that things would work better without ATC. Lets face it the only time I have met another aircraft going the oppersite way on down wind was at blackpool. Luckily I was at tp circuit height of 1500 and the other aircraft was at sep 1000ft. All done under the control of some stupid bint. Apparently it wasn't the first time she had done it, or the last.

There are no small GA airfields from Sleap northwards, west of the pennines. There's Manchester (not GA friendly), Liverpool (heading the same way), Barton (short, rough grass, closed often in winter), and that's IT!

Never mind benfitsville Blackpool, how come the massive Manchester / Liverpool connurbations (both vibrant cities) and everything in between has only one short, grass, muddy GA airfield? There seem to be plenty east of the pennines, and loads in the SE of course!

Is it possible that a lot of the current GA airfields from the Southeast all the way up the east coast as far as Aberdeen were former RAF fields hurriedly built in the early 40,s because they were "Hitler facing" rendering any potential airfields sites in the west less desirable from an operational and geographical standpoint, particularly in the Northwest?

Piper boy, how true, we make it so difficult in UK. Many airfields in for example US and Aus operate GA and CAT on what we call Safetycom with no problems at all. No PPR and VFR/IFR with GPS/ILS.
How many years will the CAA Gold Plating process take, to get to this type of operation?

There were very many wartime airfields west of the pennines, too, for training, defence, and aircraft production. So many in Shropshire that often their circuits overlapped! To list them would take a book (and it indeed has - a whole volume of 'Action Stations'). Some north of Shropshire that are or were still around and one might have thought would survive include Calveley, Cranage, Stretton, Burtonwood, Woodford, Burscough, and Mier.

I suspect the massive growth of Manchester Airport and its all-enveloping control zone explains some of that, but not all.

I've remarked on this before,but living near Rochdale and Oldham, the Manchester-side of the M62, we are in the Manchester Control zone.
Anyone wanting to fly,other than from their own field, is faced with a 45-minute trek Westwards to Barton. It's probably easier to get to Crosland Moor, which i'm led to believe has it's own challenges. there are 2 rotary fliers i know of, locally and Ihave seen a Flexwing about....but otherwise, nowt between here and Blackpool. GA is being slowly throttled to death.

The airfield operators are blaming the CAA for this ridiculous restriction. Surely they aren't that daft? :ugh:

Don't get me started on my favourite rant :{

Just been driving along the closed runway at Woodford. It's in essentially pristine condition and all the facilities are still in place apart from the damaged ILS LOC aerial. It should be about to open as the North's premier Business and GA airfield (if I had my way) but instead will be completely dug up and covered in housing etc...

Even the small northeast section that might have been saved ( at around 900m length) will now be bisected by the Poynton relief road to be built within two years.

There really is no hope :ugh:

B1913/14*(RAC)

N53°46.00 W003°02.00 3nm

Friday, 17 Oct 2014 00:00 to Saturday, 17 Jan 2015 23:59*
Elevation: SFC - 2100

FOR THE PURPOSES OF RULE 45 OF THE RULES OF THE AIR REGULATIONS 2007 THE BLACKPOOL ATZ, A CIRCLE OF 2.5NM RADIUS CENTRED ON 534618N 0030143W SFC/2100FT AMSL, IS INDEFINITELY SUSPENDED

Well they might like to stop doing that!

They now operate a private Unlicensed aerodrome - the CAA are not involved.

Maybe somebody is hiding behind this as an excuse for their own problems?

Even if that was not the case, surely the CAA would understand the safety implications of only allowing one movement per hour, with 48 hours notice. The pressure to use your slot would be immense.

The main issue will I suspect be the integration of the remaining commercial air transport traffic (Bond Offshore Helicopters) with any private GA traffic. Are they still providing full ATC or has that been withdrawn? And if it has, are they operating on A/G Radio only?

I can't think of any other places where commercial passenger helicopter traffic is operating from an unlicensed field where there are other uncontrolled movements taking place.

NS

Shaggysheep...

How is Liverpool 'GA unfriendly'? There's a healthy mix of commercial and GA there. There's around 80 based light aircraft and numerous flying schools...

NorthSouth

In answer to your query about ATC, it appears no as the ATZ has been withdrawn. It is only possible to sustain an ATZ at an unlicensed aerodrome if either ATC or AFIS is provided.

As many aircraft are maintained at Blackpool, how is one supposed to carry out post maintainence test flights, any of which could require several intermediate landings for adjustments to be made before the aircraft is acceptable? :ugh:


MJ:ok:

rm from flybpl isnt putting up with 2 days ppr, he's relocated back to tarm farm cockerham :8

They've made everyone in ATC redundant and lost their ATZ. The helicopter operations are running out of Warton now.

I didn't say it was. I said:

Not the same thing at all.

One example of how it's moving the wrong way is apron security; fences everywhere with electronic locks. Never used to be like that. You either have to buy an airside pass, or get someone to let you in and out. When I first started operating from there if I forgot something from my car I just nipped back and got it - no problem, no delay. Not now - find someone to let you out, go to car, find someone to let you in again. A right pain!

That's hardly the airports fault about the fences.

And being able to get a card to let you in and out and not have to go through a security checkpoint is pretty good actually. And quite GA friendly in my view.

Better than having to interact with some help in the community low IQ prat in a security station.

Only because there are few places left in the Northwest to base an aircraft, I would give up flying rather than be based at Liverpool.

MJ:Please don't blame the messengers. In my experience they're mostly as much victims as we are. And, where they're not dealing with thousands of people a day, my experience is that they're more likely to be "human". Doesn't alter the rules they are employed to enforce but at least makes it a slightly less negative experience.
NS

I didn't say it was. I cited it as an example of how it's becoming more a 'big' airport and less an informal GA field

They don't give 'em away! They're a few hundred quid. Why aren't they more like a fiver, which would cover issue cost?

Fuelling was another problem getting worse. We'd instruct the handlers to have the aeroplane out on the apron 8:00am. The fuellers came round about 9 to 9:30 and filled up all the club aeroplanes and ours (Chippys always need fuel - they have tiny tanks). I'd turn up for a two hour slot for some aeros and a strip landing or two and find the tanks empty. By the time I'd got hold of fuel it wasn't worth flying!

It all adds up to a pretty negative and expensive experience. So.....

Funny you should say that.

Liverpool ATC were super, slotting GA in. But as for the rest of it, the distinct impression was that someone in management really didn't want us doing this GA stuff.

Anyone know of an LAA Cub share going, on a farm strip in the area?

Some are as you say and others are just a thick person with a bit of power and loves it.

These are the types that try and take your sandwiches off you because they have butter in them.

Same with the re-fuelers I can understand with pre-booked CAT flights they come first but then again they tend to be earlier than your normal flying school flights.

But refuelers that do the morning rush then decide that GA can wait until they have had their breakfast. Then they go and dip the tanks etc. And only after they have done everything else they decide to bother there backside to pump some fuel.

Rossall Field

from

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...nning-end.html

Ghost town!
 

Flew out of Blackpool Today to funnily enough, pick up an aircraft from annual. The airport has special procedures in place now to accommodate aircraft leaving from maintenance, Bond and Helimed flights. The whole experience was surreal with an almost empty airport, and no one telling oneself to hold short or taxi and the like, the lack of fee was nice too but i bet one will come in the post soon...

Just wondering how big the losses were and how much full ATC was costing. Other parts of the world run small airports without ATC and pilots broadcast their intentions and sort their own separation (CTAF).

bb

its not an option in the UK.

Think I read somewhere circa 3 million a year. That is unsustainable.

Blackpool was not a particularly 'small', airport. The issue is when small airports, are run as big airports. Recipe for ultimate disaster.

The infrastructure only survives in Scotland through public subsidy. Without it, a lot of small airports, being run as big ones, would not be here.

I was born and bred in Lytham St Anne's. Living in Highbury Road as a youngster I looked out from my bedroom window across farmers fields and had a fabulous view of everything that happened at the airport.......many years ago those very farmers fields became housing estates, how ironic would it be if the airport that I used to enjoy so much would also become said housing estate.

Working now in Scotland I see Campbletown,Islay, Tiree and Barra all operating commercial flights using a AFISO as the only form of ATC. Could Blackpool do the same?

Sadly I fear that this is the beginning of the end, I only hope at the end of the day we can at least see a small portion of the airfield saved if only for GA use, but sadly I fear financially that would not be feasable !:{

Shaggy Sheep Driver,

If it doesn't have to be a Cub I know of a quarter share in a Jodel available on a farm strip in the area.

PM me if you are interested.

I don't think ATC was at the root of the financial issues. It was a part, but by no means a large part.

To operate the airfield on a commercial basis, you require an airline infrastructure that has customers, and customers that are willing to pay more than £13.00 to get to Tenerife.:sad:

You also require a business infrastructure that can thrive in an economically vibrant economy. Not taxed to oblivion by an external and onerous business taxation system.

Look into this and you are getting to the bottom of the several severe issues facing the UK economy today. Oh, and I think it will get worse.before it gets better....

And to prove my point, this just posted on the Thomas Cook thread on this forum by Uplinker.
It is all linked, sadly:ouch:

Well , as we're derailing a thread, (as usual!)....Uplinker, before spouting such drivel, should perhaps look at the P&L accounts of these "greedy" operators.

Oh, yes, indeed, witha very few exceptions, they make a small fortune out of Air transport...BUT , that's only because they started with large fortunes.

Keeping the ticket-price down, in Cattle-Class, widens the customer-base dramatically. those packed-in bums-on-seats pay the overheads, the premium tickets add fer more to the bottom-line than the additional service, space and ameneties would suggest.

Air-travel has been, allowed to the great unwashed since packaged holidays to the Costas became mainstream.

Get rid of all the Proles, make air -travel exclusive once again and you will reduce the world's airliner fleet by a good 70%....that means a huge shrinkage in Aircrew jobs, support jobs and industry....like the motor-trade, they (Governments) cannot afford to kill ir stifle these industries.

CS Far from derailing, the discussion rests on Blackpool going bust. It went bust for a reason, I think you miss the point.

The LoCo survives,by volumes. Volumes of chaff paying 13.00. The model exists in getting places like Blackpool to fund it. No landing fees, reduced everything, arguing that the shops stc will make up for the fund gap.

Eh, no it doesn't. Sooner or later, the model collapses. Blackpool is but one of many. Most Tour fiirms work in effective administration, the one in Uplinkers post being one.:8

Maybe Blackpool will re- emerge as a GA centre of excellence. Time will tell if a Rich white Knight steps up to the plate. Think I may hold my breath on that one.