Visual Approach
 

Hello to all, would love some help to this question:

During a Visual Approach in controlled class C who is responsible to maintain separation: the pilot or the ATC ?

I thought the pilot but the exam site says ATC.

many thanks

If you're being 'controlled' ATC is responsible for separation.


However, that doesn't absolve you of responsibility to keep good lookout.

In the UK...... BOTH!

VFR separated from IFR in Class C & D, but NOT separated from other VFR traffic.

From CAA web site:

Class C

IFR and VFR flights are permitted

All flights are provided with air traffic control service

IFR flights are separated from other IFR flights and from VFR flights.


VFR flights are separated from IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of other VFR flights.

Class D

IFR and VFR flights are permitted

All flights are provided with air traffic control service

IFR flights are separated from other IFR flights and receive traffic information in respect of VFR flights

VFR flights receive traffic information in respect of all other flights.

I'm not sure what it's supposed to be but I would lean towards saying it is the responsibility of the pilot.

ATC should provide separation from other IFR traffic but will not separate you from VFR traffic, or at least is not obliged to.

The other thing that comes to mind is at a slight tangent, but I find it fairly common to ask for a visual approach and for ATC to say 'do you have the A320 on a 6 mile final in sight?" and then "cleared visual approach behind the landing A320, recommended spacing is xnm" which puts the separation between two IFR flights on the pilot following AFAIK.

As XA said, however -

Do you mean a VFR approach, or and IFR Visual approach?

If VFR -

You are under a control service, so have to follow ATC instructions. ATC will separate you from IFR traffic typically by route and/or level restrictions (eg track via A and B; not above 2000' etc) or, if the weather permits by visual separation (the controller has both a/c in sight & can maintain sep or following a/c has lead a/c in sight & can maintain sep).

Other VFR a/c, you will just receive tfc info, although that could also come with instructions like "join downwind lefthand rwXX. You are no2 to a C172 late downwind left"

*simplified for brevity.

If you mean an IFR visual approach, then you will be separated from everyone.



Rules of exactly how a controller may separate do vary slightly from country to country, however, so your best bet to get things straight in your mind is a visit to your friendly local ATC unit. Don't forget to go armed with biscuits and/or cakes!

AP

A "visual approach" is part of an instrument approach procedure and therefore you are flying under IFR rules. Otherwise it would be a VFR approach.
In class C the controller is responsible for all separation between IFR traffic and other IFR and VFR traffic.
Had it been class D the controller would only be responsible for separation from other IFR traffic and not VFR traffic.

.
Well in the UK (now including Scotland!) we have no Class C below FL195,
and also no airfields above FL195 so the problem does not occur here.


Disclaimer.... Other countries may have different class C airspace.


.

lasseb in Copenhagen has it.

baleares asked:

As far as the UK is concerned; from CAP493:

Is there a distinction between "provide" and "responsible for" ? They mean different things in a literal sense of course.

As said above, you are still flying under IFR during a visual approach.
So the controler must seperate you from all other traffics, which means keep you far enough acoording to his rules which are rather strict.
The pilot remains always responsible for collision avoidance, even if separated from other aircrafts.
Separate aircrafts means give them instructions so that the separation minimums will be achieved.It's the responsability of the controller, as you don't have the means to do that by yourself.
Collision avoidance means using all available ressources to avoid collision, that's always the crew's responsability

If you say "cancel IFR", then the controler still have to separate you from IFR traffic but not from VFR traffic in class C airspace.
That explains why from time to time a visual approach will be refused by the controller, because he thinks it will be difficult for him to maintain the separation minimums between you and other VFR traffic. In that case say "cancel IFR" and you will approach visually, and don't forget to log the last minutes of the flight under VFR.

thanks for all the help

:ok:

I think you mean IFR. In Class C there is no requirement to separate 'cancelled IFR' (=VFR) and VFR, but there is a requirement to separate 'cancelled IFR' (=VFR) from IFR.

As long as you remain IFR, even during a visual approach, the controler must seprate you from VFR and IFR.
If you cancel IFR, you become VFR, and hence the controler does not have to separate you from other VFR.

172510, apologies, disregard my #12 post, I didn't read your (pre-edit) #10 post properly. I agree with you. More medicine required...

if you are cleared for a visual based on following traffic ahead, you will have to maintain your sep from the traffic you are following, provided you have reported it in sight and will maintain visual sep.

and you can get a visual approach at an airport that doesn't have an instrument approach procedure.

A visual approach in FAA is IFR, but usual separation minima are now suspended. You're responsible for your own separation as long as you stay visual with either preceding traffic, or the rwy. Note - you do not have to have rwy in sight to be able accept a visual approach. All you need is preceding traffic in sight.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...C/atc0704.html