Intensive PPL with on-site accommodation in nice location?
 

Hi chaps,

I'm at the end of my tether researching possible places to get my PPL next year.

Currently Denmark based, where training at home is out of the question since it's €300/hour for an ancient Warrior and an hour's train/bus ride each way to the airfield - so I'm looking to travel abroad.

I'm more or less willing to go anywhere in the world (Australia included) to do a 4-6 week residential PPL where I can live on or very close to the training center.

My caveats are that I don't want to have to hire a car for the whole time I'm there, nor spend an outrageous amount of time on public transport getting around. Ideally the accommodation should not be ****, and if they provide their own food/canteen then so much the better.

I suppose you could say I'm looking for the integrated ATPL version of a PPL, minus the uniform and zero job prospects!

In my quiet moments I dream of some friendly little place on the beach with a small shack I can live in and cheap, plentiful food all round.

Cost isn't particularly limiting (budget around €14,000). My main concern is that it's a good experience with minimal commute and minimal hauling around shops for food on public transport.

Your insights welcome!

These bootcamp educations are well available in the US, but you might not be happy with a FAA PPL in Denmark, so I assume you talk EASA part-FCL license?

At such price tag there shouldn't be any problem. A good friend of mine from Fåborg was planning to do his part-FCL PPL at Hanover airport this or next year. There is a local school flightcenter-hannover.de I heard very good of, as it offers a well balanced mix of FI being the bushpilot sort and airliners as well. They train mainly on Aquila A210 and learning to fly with CTR will give you much confidence in radio ops as well.

I have no update on his efforts, but maybe you both synchronize?

You could try Stuart Morton at Limoges, France
PPL flight training in France - Stuart Morton

Go to EFT in Fort Pierce, FL. Good reputation, good instructors, on-site housing, and weather will hopefully coordinate for a fast-track PPL.

I've heard good things about EFT and their facilities look very good.

Thanks for the tips so far guys - will gladly receive any more!

Intensive PPL with on-site accommodation in nice location?
 

We'll do it for you at York Flying School at Breighton, in the North of England. Get a tent and stay on the airfield. £125/hour if our prices stay the same - to fly, not stay, in a C150/152. No need for a car. No landing fees. 4-6 weeks should easily be enough time, even for British summer weather! We've had someone finished up in 14 days of training before.
Nice club environment, and an interesting place to fly from.

Take a look around Benešov, CZ. There's rooms for rent at the field and the food AND beer are ok and ridiculously affordable.
Not so sure about availability of English speaking instructors, though, but it seems worth an enquiry.
And yes the scenery around is nice enough, rolling hills and woods and the river Vltava ("Moldau") of Smetana fame, and the fabulous city of Praha only a short train ride away.

Be great if you could find a school in Mexico that dishes out US PPL's
It's cheap accommodation, quality beer and food, hot chicks, brilliant weather and cheap gas down there.

I don't know the ins and outs of easa etc.

I can imagine you could make it to the USA for fall and expedite your training before winter.

Everyone seems to go to arizona, california or florida. But there are many other places in the US where you could get a decent hotel / motel right at the airport and take lessons.

consult: airnav.com

put in a town or city and check out the airport (in the US) and they list the FBO and hotels with distances to the airport.

Maybe check out exotic places like champaign illinois or many other little places where the cost of hotels is low and the planes aren't too expensive.

I think there are some requirements to check into about security.

We still don't know which variant of PPL - US or EASA. From the initial post I assume EASA, so all these "make your US PPL" may be wrong headed. There are advantages to do the US PPL, most prominent if you go IR, but this is only a catch until 2015, when EASA planes are to be flown by a full EASA license, not only validation.

BTW: just yesterday I heard of somebody finishing his part-FCL in Szeged at Fly-Team Hungary, maybe HU is an option?

Hungary might be even cheaper for food/accommodation than CZ. A possible issue in both countries might be that not many people have even the slightest bit of English. Make sure to have an instructor with good English (or another language that you speak, German perhaps)!

Hungary and Czech are quite similar in many aspects. Czech is a bit more expensive, but a bit easier with english. Hungary is a bit cheaper and the english skills sufficient to survive. I worked in both countries for a while (Prague and Budapest were definitely easy with english, but in smaller towns you may have to ask a bit around). You get used to radio after a short while, in both countries you can fly on english radio ops. Tower and Info usually are able to speak quite well english and the few vocabs of the traffic circle you learn in a matter of hours. If you are going for LP Czech is easier ;-).

Don't come to the UK for an intensive course!
 

Hi oneredpanther,

Whenever someone posts on Pprune seeking a location for an intensive course there is always someone who suggests coming to the UK. Don't do it. The UK has a 'returning polar maritime' climate, (i.e. cloudy and wet with a summer maximum rainfall). And it is at its worst in the North and West of the country.

In fairness, you can just perhaps be lucky. In 1960 I did my own PPL in only a few weeks at Barton near Manchester. But I was very, very lucky. After I had completed my course it then proceeded to rain for weeks on end. If I had started my course ten days later it would have taken months to complete.

In the mid 2000s when I came to renew my licence - this time in the relatively dry South East of England - I had to book two to three times the number of lessons I wanted because more than half of them had to be cancelled within 48 hrs of flying because of adverse weather. Renewing my licence took nearly a year.

In these circumstances if you come to the UK you could end up returning to Denmark weeks later with your course far from complete and facing the choice, either of doing half of your training in Denmark, or else of making multiple further visits to the UK.

You need to go somewhere with a 'continental' climate, (i.e. dry).

I would also suggest it should be somewhere where there would be no shortage of instructors whose native language is English. If I was a native Danish speaker, (as I assume you are,) I should be most uneasy about learning to fly in English from an instructor whose own native language is, perhaps Czech or French. The possibilities for mistakes and misunderstanding would be worrying.

I reckon any of the following should do - but stay well away from the West coast in each case; Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, United States.

Good luck!

BP.

Also, before someone pulls out the "you need to retrain to fly in Europe if you do your EASA PPL in USA", you have to do the same thing if you do it in the UK.
UK is as different from Denmark as US is from Denmark.

Can you afford the cost of flying in Denmark after you have passed?

Rod1

Thanks for the additional replies gents!

It's the EASA license I'm after.

I'm actually British, stationed in Denmark indefinitely! So while the UK is home to me, as others have said the weather is a bit of a no-go.

Some places will rent a 172 for EUR 165/hr so that seems reasonable. For some unknown reason they like to train in more expensive Warriors or Tobagos- almost double the cost when you factor in tuition.

The more I look into EFT the better it seems to look. Happy to hear counterarguments of course :)

When you say Denmark 'Based' do you have plans to move away once you have completed your PPL? Do you have a more local airfield to fly from once you have you licence ? Stay away from the UK for an intensive course, the weather is not reliable enough, you could end up falling on a bad week/month and spend a lot of time drinking coffee/tea. Get yourself off to florida !! :cool:

Drop me a pm. I can organise it in Spain for you. Accommodation as well.

Great climate and location.

I only have one thing to keep in mind, when going EFT. FL is a great place to fly, airfields are large-paved-easy, you are able to spool down hours after hours quite quickly there and the weather is almost always nice, BUT - this is exactly the drawback, especially when talking piloting in Denmark.

I am currently based Northern Germany and frequently flying into Denmark (some real great places there!). Weather is a great issue, strong crosswinds upon landing are common and the typical DK airstrip a short small gras mogul slope. My bet after following some chaps Florida education in recent years: you will need significant extra training when coming back from FL to handle small fields. Our fellow US guys tend to train landing approaches with slightly higher landing speed, about 5-10 knots in excess to what we train in Europe. If you do this at Kegnaes International EKKI on 36 downslope 1300ft gras you are in the water, or at Femoe you may hit the restaurant (oneway RWY).

Sorry for such an advice, but if you plan to fly in Denmark, get an education which clearly enables to. If you have some doubts about that, I'll come and take you to some demonstration in Denmark ;-).

Fact is, that landings are a much less reproducible activity. But to attribute the lapses you observed in your associates to Florida weather and airport runways is clearly a misjudgement. There is absolutely no way to substantiate your claim.
If your associates are displaying in-capabilities in handling airport landing runways, then this surely must be attributed to their immaturity in applying safety factors to AFM performance information for landing purposes.

A pilot and the airplane always work as a team and the pilot must map his/her capabilities with that of the airplane to derive the performance information needed to successfully land the airplane and come to a complete stop. In essence, the pilot must take the AFM into consideration and align all the necessary variables to achieve a positive landing outcome.

WP

Anyone have information about the flying school in Christchurch, New Zealand. I heard that they provide intensive PPL and IFR training.

Hi,

I also disagree with that statement that Florida is a piece of cake that ill prepares you for tiny places in Europe. At the end of the day it is about experiences. The more you stay flying local in one region the less versatile you will be.

I trained at EFT back in March 2010. Had a great time and highly recommend it.
Also experienced several times and was to trained to handle serious cross wind landings.

Training in FL is a plus, you will at least get the ball rolling. Subsequent trainings to get used to more difficult situations depends also on your skills and eagerness to master those. Do not analyse too much, you know the adage: analysis paralysis. OneRedPanther: just go for it.

I used to bang out 3 week ppl all the time in inverness.

It has a microclimate which means the only wx issues are the qxc.

50 k viz is not unusual though and i never got bored of the local scenery.

No on site accom but plenty of near by reasonably priced accom as long as you avoid the golf etc.

3 week PPL courses are routine for us in Spain. Same with CPL and IR etc.

Nonsense, training in the US is just like it is everywhere else, you are taught to "fly the numbers"

Do you have more info about this aerodrome? I have no doubt the "international" bit is somewhat sarcastic, but is the rest for real?

US really doesn't want visitors....starts with the long queue and hostile officials at their Embassy....just to get a Visa.....then you face Dept. of Homeland security when you get there.......
Spain is desparate for foreign visitors, is geared up for them, prices are rock-bottom..climate is good........
ATM, I can't think of a single reason to favour America over Spain (never been to either, but trying to walk in the O.P's shoes.)

That's so true these days.

The stupidity that you have to go through to spend your money in the states is absolutely a huge pain in the backside.

There are loads of places in the EU where you can learn to fly and are nice you basically just need to decide which country takes your fancy.

3 week PPL though is not a holiday, its bloody hard work.

It ain't just foreigners that catch **** when coming thru US immigration, I,m a US citizen and i regularly get asked bull**** questions. The problem is the US Customs and immigration service and Department of Homeland Security have been on an enormous hiring spree recently and the hiring standards seems to have dropped as the bad attitudes of the new hires has risen, Based on some of the interaction I have had it appears that some have barely graduated out of toll both training school.

I don't see why I should pay money and have to jump through their bloody hoops to visit the place.

They don't want me to go their fine I don't want to go their either.

In fact the only thing that I would consider going to see would be Alaska.

I don't have any problems with Americans but there are nicer places to visit in this world and I will visit them instead and spend my money in them.

J

I did a PPL from 27 July 1964 to 21 August 1964 at Thruxton. Not much longer at 25 days. I don't remember it being any harder than, say, learning to ski or sail on a 3 week holiday. I enjoyed it.
PS £135 (+£2/10s Club membership) for the PPL - full board included.

its all in the preparation of the student and as you say if they are committed and focused.

If they are its a great three weeks for both instructor and student and it doesn't seem like hard work to either of them.

If on the other hand they have an idea in their head that they can paint the town red every other night and not put the book work in they will struggle and not enjoy it.

I did mine in about just under 3 weeks in Florida. I would brag and say I was the usual "better than average" student, I was done in minimum hours. But it definitely wasn't a holiday. 0500 wakeup every morning, and fly as much as you can. I enjoyed it, but it was very hard work. I had excellent instructors though who made it possible.(hint: go to EFT)

I did go to Lollipops a few times though...

The immigration is a non-issue, 2-3 hours total to get everything sorted, hardly a big deal. Besides, I much rather deal with US customs and immigration people, than the spanish ATC.

People who say "Spain over US" are usually the ones who either have vested interest in Spanish aviation training, or as cockney steve said, "never been to either"

Been to both actually.

And personally I wouldn't go to either spain or FL.

I did my PPL in FL in the allotted 3 weeks.

I did though have to sort a few issues out which was due to training in the US while doing my CPL and FI ratings especially the FI.

While working as a FI I then had to sort out quite a few US trained pilots. There were some goodun's but the majority had to have re training.

RT was a major issue and also attitude flying and emergency procedures.

And immigration is a huge issue, if you get knocked back once you are stuffed for the rest of your life going to the US all because some low IQ moron on the border doesn't like the look of you. I know two commercial pilots that missed out on jobs because the type rating was in the US in DC but they were banned after a previous visit ended with the next flight back.

Basically you won't know what's wrong with your training until you go to the next level and you discover how many holes you have in it.

Have you considered going to New Zealand? I know its not an EASA ticket but its very easy to convert, medical, a few exams and flight test. Another few hundred £/euro but well worth looking at.

I did mine in the Bay of Plenty, Tauranga Airport around March time and had great weather, great views and brilliant people around, some clubs will loan you a car to get to the shops only 5 minutes away.

Worth looking into I think, PM if you want more details.

if I could do everything again that's where I would go as well.

The Dagoes deal successfully with the dregs of British "society" each year.....the stories of "shagenuf" aka Magaluf and similar "resorts" are well enough known....I am given to understand the TV comedy series "Benidorm" is a very much watered-down version of reality! :O
I am sure they welcome Englishstudent-Pilots with open arms......
Also, Bose-x is a long-time member here and comes across as a good guy.

The Septics (See, Ican be even-handed with the insults :} ) really do come across as the opposite.....however much you try to evade the issue, a bitof digging will reveal the "anti" attitude starts with the cattle-herding that is the several-hour wait to see a surly, hostile official. This is NOT my biased opinion, it is as a result of postings from disgruntled applicants- they can't all be wrong!

At the final count, no doubt the "man in the street" experienceis totally different.........we used to accommodate a lot of servicemen "off Base" from Weathersfield (Suffolk?) in the late 1950's....they were , to a man, open, fun and generous (though they tended toreturn with a different "lady" every time ;) )

My youngest son has refused point-blank to go there for his employers-2 different lots have tried-he won't even entertain a short visit. the aggro to get in is enoughto put him off.
I sincerely hope Uncle Sam reads this and realises how his reputation is being dragged down by his public-facing employees......

Confession! I was asked to go out and repair a friend's sisters' Rolls Royce.
All paid including my partner, a 3 week holiday. Thanks, but no thanks. She eventuallyfound a British car enthusiast with whom I had several long e-mail conversations A cracked carburettor-float was changed and the car restored to good health.......still waiting , ~3 years later, for a "thanks" e-mail!

I would still like to hear why is immigration a "huge issue"?

What are your experiences with US immigration? Why is it an issue? I've gone through most hurdles you can have with US immigration, and I can say it is an absolute non-issue.

Cockney steve's reply is nonsense and I think you'd require ICAO level 7 to understand what he is trying to say.

I've never had any problems with U S Immigration, Customs, or Airport Security. Border Patrol along the Mexican border can be awkward, but never Immigration. I've driven to Spain, and the only problem is a higher proportion of mainly Spanish speakers than the US.

I have never had a problem yet either thankfully but I have seen and heard of many that have.

And most of the time its just a huge misunderstanding, that doesn't change the fact though you are then barred from the US including transfer flights.

Some bring problems on themselves with insurance issues as well. I know double figures of people who can't go back because they have left without paying medical bills.

The whole immigration thing takes months of getting things sorted and costs you money. And their is a small chance that everything can come un done due to some idiot having a bad day at work. This will mean that you forfeit any deposit you have paid, airline tickets wasted etc etc.

Going to Europe for training on the other hand just costs you a Ryanair flight. Medical is on your home country's ticket and significantly cheaper travel insurance.

I think that lad at Ormond beach that crash and got burned has now got a half mill dollar medical bill.

The pain in the backside immigration is just one issue, if you do things properly and get all the other cards in line training in the US costs the same if not more than training in Europe.

Oh and if you have an issue with the school in the US you have zero chance of getting your money back. Your backside is on a plane out of the US before you can say visa cancelled.