"Light Twin" fatal at Hawarden
 

Another tiny picture from News North Wales:
- BREAKING: light aircraft crashes at Hawarden Airport

And another from Wrexham.com
Two Die After Small Plane Crashes At Chester Hawarden Airport | Wrexham.com

Just came on to post that. It's so much worse (at least for me) when it's somewhere you've visited and knew people. Hopefully said people were not involved here, but our small community has lost another two members, and barely a year since the last accident at Hawarden.

Edit: link already posted. Nothing in the photos available with identifiable detail. I see the BBC have updated their story with a larger picture also, reg still not identifiable (possibly legible with image enhancement or prior knowledge, but seems a stretch)

Daily Mail:
Man and woman killed in plane crash at Airbus UK Broughton, Hawarden Airport | Mail Online

Blue skies...

Sadly I recognise that as one of the twins based at Hawarden. A distinctive type with highly swept tip tanks........

Condolences.

"Light Twin" fatal at Hawarden
 

Anyone any idea what aircraft it is, looking a 340 possibly?

My guess is a 1970 C310Q.

"Light Twin" fatal at Hawarden
 

Thank M-ONGO, very sad

Pretty sure I know who it was too, RIP :(

There is some instructive yet rather chilling footage here:
Hawarden Airport crash: Dramatic picture shows the moment plane 'landed nose first' killing man and woman - Mirror Online

I don't think so.

I don't think so either.

Pure speculation from the pictures published so far,

1. May have died at the controls prior to impact.

2. Or loss of control on one engine.

Either way a very sad event.

My speculation on this from looking at the pictures from the Mirror, and numbering them 1,2,3 from the top picture... The only way it could have ended up facing "backwards" in position in pic 2 is if it had forward momentum from pic 1; and the pic 1 position looks like a missed-approach, go-around, "efato"*, roll, pic 3, pic 1, pic 2.

Dreadful.

* I know it wasn't taking-off.

Agreed - looks like aircraft was below Vmca on very short finals with No1 engine producing zero or even negative thrust, and No2 engine suddenly produced full thrust for unexplained reasons.

It was G-BXUY, a C310Q, sadly. The aircraft was piloted by Gary Vickers.

ASN Aircraft accident 15-NOV-2013 Cessna 310Q G-BXUY

Two dead after aircraft comes down at Hawarden Airport in North Wales - Wales Online

Fuel starvation ???

Looks eerily similar to one I saw at Denham 5 or so years ago.

Condolences.

Actually 7+ years ago, August 2006 !!

Very sad and highlights the dangers of flying twin engined light aircraft with their minimal performance.

For me it also highlights the importance of keeping the aircraft flying and trading energy for speed and flight control.

It is better to crash in control than to crash out of control.

Horrific pictures which shows how ruthless our mistress and passion can be.
One minute the pleasure of what we do. One mistake sometimes even a small mistake of judgement with such unforgiving and cruel results! :(

Pace

It's when you're near the ground in an aircraft that you are vulnerable.

G-AXUY is not a Cessna 310 it is a Jodel, possibly GAZUY?
Asymmetric flap?

or even G-BXUY??

Deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those who perished in the accident.

Yes, G-BXUY I'm told..
 

Pretty rare for there to be reasonable quality photographs of an aircraft in the seconds before impact.. no doubt will be of great interest to AAIB.

Horizontal vis at the surface looks ok(ish) but of course could have been very different a few hundred feet higher. Obviously a fairly substantial vertical impact yet no sign of fire/explosion. Fuel exhaustion maybe but not starvation IMHO

Still very sad.

No fire post impact....no fuel?

God bless them......a horrific accident

Glad to see we've solved the cause of the accident from the comfort of our armchairs… :ok:

Anyone remember the C310 accident at Norwich, asymmetric flap deployment on finals……??

Yes Chuffer, it seems that you have now solved the cause. :D

Thanks. Can I now become an AAIB inspector too?:E

Chuffer, with ADR, as long as the discussion is respectful remembering this was a fatal accident I see no harm with informed speculation whilst we await the AAIB report.

There aren't many reasons a light twin rolls upside down, and looking at scenarios might not 'solve' it but what does it hurt?

For anyone not familiar with C310s the flaps are practically invisible from the cockpit as they are under-wing (split flaps) so if there were to be an asymmetry in flap deployment/retraction it wouldn't immediately be visually apparent.

I do not know this pilot, however I have a keen interest in the type, so would like to be able to speculate, respectfully, about possible failure modes.

There are multiple reasons possible, of course. Maybe he didn't enrich coming down from altitude and then had to execute a go around - one engine sputtered, the other didn't.

That he was going-around seems fairly evident from the pictures, and to roll through 90 degrees would take more than a "splutter" on the portside - this is an experienced pilot with lots of twin-time; not a GFT.

In my mind I can visualise the aircraft on approach, going-around, *something* happens, rolls left through 90 degrees, yaws left 90 degrees (to nose down) and hits the ground nose down slightly past the vertical then the tail drops and the whole thing slides to a halt.

No fire: But then there was nothing to ignite one and the fuel was on the wing tips in any event.

So I then think about what caused that port wing to drop (or starboard to rise) quite rapidly (all assuming the photo sequence I alluded to previously).

Whether he was asymmetric in the [missed] approach I don't know but will be important and is the only time ACH becomes relevant.

Reasons for a wing drop [in a twin] we all know - wing stalled, asymmetric power/lift, wrong rudder, structural fail of wing, flap deployed asymmetrically. Some of those can possibly be ruled-out by looking at the pictures.

Could that *something* have been a sudden, catastrophic, incapacitation ? (ie massive stroke, heart attack, or something similar).

The loss of control appears to have been total ; and so far I haven't read anything about any Mayday call.

All we know is that the unfortunate pilot was pronounced dead at the scene ; but death (or at least unconsciousness) could actually have happened several minutes earlier.

Information may be available from autopsy. Luckily there was no fire, which often cremates evidence when it does occur.

Looking at the location of the aircraft on the airfield, I would think he had over 1.5 - 2.0 km of airfield left to manage an engine off landing. It is puzzling why he chose to fly on under power...

I wonder if turbulence from the A380 building might have caused a wind rotor, if the wind was from the west.

Brings me back to the thoughts in my post just a few minutes ago . . . . .

If he was unconscious he would not have made any choices at all :sad:

g-bxuy
 

Shocking loss of life, very sad. Another classic 1960 designed aircraft lost as well. Beautiful lines don't make them like this anymore. Terrible loss of a "three ten".

To go vertically into the ground like that there is only one realistic cause.
The aircraft stopped flying! stalled.
Whatever lead up to it stopping flying is the questionable bit.
Hence why it is so important in any scenario to keep the wing flying ie trade altitude for energy.If assymetric and loosing control pull both back and keep flying.
Better to crash in control than to crash out of control

Pace

Not saying this is a actually what happened.

But please all you twin drivers go and read up on Vmca.

You need to know how it changes depending what you are doing.

And also know how to sort it out if you have issues with it. Mind you on a low level GA there isn't a lot of time or energy to sort it.

To be honest even with commercial twin drivers its a relatively ignored subject Everyone thinks V2 is some sort of get out of jail card and if your above that your sorted. Even if you tell them well actually you can be at Vyse and be below Vmca they start scoffing that your talking rubbish.

I'm not a twin driver but I know what VMCA is and what happens if you get a single engine failure below that speed. How is V2 related to VMCA? Are they not the same?

V2 doesn't really exist in terms of light twin ops. Sometimes people mistakenly refer to it, but they actually mean Vsse

Assuming of course he was not already incapacitated as I suggested in post 11, then no amount of energy is of any use.

They are not, V2 is best angle of climb on a Perf A aircraft.

Thanks for that. :ok:

Just a thought, do they have movements by large commercial aircraft at Hawarden, as wake turbulence on short final would certainly put you in that attitude.