Fuel selector Both or fullest
My POH states on take off and landing select "Fullest Tank or Both, I always select Both as it seems safer, is there a chance of engine feed interruption in the unlikely event one of the tanks running dry while set to Both in a gravity feed system? If not why would Fullest be the first choice in the POH as opposed to always using Both for TO and landing which seems like a more logical/safer option? (note: there are 3 inline pumps on the fuel system, 1 engine driven, 1 boost and 1 for vapor lock (there are additional 2 that are not relevant to this issue as they are xfer pumps)
|
because you fly something with xfer pumps i feel deeply unqualified to comment....
but i will say some time ago i flew a 172S which for some odd reason wasn't taking fuel from both tanks evenly (it had the G1000 suite so i had visual and audible warnings) it was giving a low fuel indication on left tank but 3/4 full on the other, instead of taking BOTH on the return leg take off i went for FULLEST didn't fancy a cough from the engine climbing out with 4 pax on board... Just me.. switched back to BOTH and monitored all the way home... |
Piperboy what airplane are you flying ?
|
instead of taking BOTH on the return leg take off i went for FULLEST didn't fancy a cough from the engine climbing out with 4 pax on board... |
Fuel selector Both or fullest
BPF maule mx7 180a with the Peterson and maule Mogas stc which involves adding an electric pump to the supply
|
but i will say some time ago i flew a 172S which for some odd reason wasn't taking fuel from both tanks evenly (it had the G1000 suite so i had visual and audible warnings) I have heard although it might be an old wive's tale but seems to be fairly well accepted amongst the experienced pilots at my club that the fuel vent on a typical Cessna can also when airborne increase the air pressure in the left tank making it feed quicker than the right. I am prepared to be shot down in flames and retreat gracefully. |
I am prepared to be shot down in flames and retreat gracefully. I was always told that the fullest tank would, in the event of fuel pump failure, give a better head of pressure than a lesser full one. I suppose I've just believed that ever since!! How that works in a low wing set-up is beyond me though. |
How that works in a low wing set-up is beyond me though. We have a 152 (the unfeasibly light one...) that throughout flight drips fuel from the fuel vent, still haven't figured that one out either... |
In a low wing set-up, the fuel gets "sucked" up by the fuel pump(s). Hence no "both" setting - try to suck up from an empty glass and a full glass simultaneously through a pair of straws, and you will only get air.
In a gravity fed system, there is a positive pressure in the fuel lines. That pressure does not really change that much, it comes mostly from the fuel in the line (a couple of feet above the engine) and not from the fuel in the tanks (a few inches in addition to that). In general, it helps to put the fuel selector to a single tank
but i will say some time ago i flew a 172S which for some odd reason wasn't taking fuel from both tanks evenly (it had the G1000 suite so i had visual and audible warnings) it was giving a low fuel indication on left tank but 3/4 full on the other, instead of taking BOTH on the return leg take off i went for FULLEST didn't fancy a cough from the engine climbing out with 4 pax on board... One degree of bank will make the outside end of the lower wing tank sit a couple of inches lower than the higher wing tank, and fuel will flow down... although empty on one and 3/4 full would be a bit extreme; 1/4 to 3/4 would not be unheard off for the less sensitive pilots. Especially when they fly uncoordinated steep turns or holds in an air exercise... |
I'll second that. When I was learning to fly I remember refuelling after a sortie and putting much more in one tank than the other. When I asked my instructor he simply replied 'Ball. Middle.Not'
|
I vote both. Takes more mismanagement to run out of fuel.
I used to fly a 140 with no both position, and I used to keep one tank empty for weight reasons. The 140 I fly now has a both position. Bryan |
Some a/c, Rans S6 with two wing tanks have Left, Right & Off tap.
So the choice is easy, fullest tank. Despite this separation the low wing overflow syndrome is still possible when parked left wing low - as in my shed - and Right selected. Because the pumped fuel return bleed is to the left tank, a surprising amount can drain from the 'top' right tank via the return bleed in a week parked. I know ! mike hallam |
Originally Posted by piperboy84
(Post 7899932)
BPF maule mx7 180a with the Peterson and maule Mogas stc which involves adding an electric pump to the supply
For fuel injected engines it is a different story as you must have a central collector tank in order to have a both setting even in high wing aircraft. BTW there is a vent line on high wing Cessna's that runs across the top of the cabin from the right tank to the left tank. The left tank is then connected to the vent behind the left wing strut. Placing the fuel selector to left will not stop fuel moving from the right tank to the left tank via the vent line and then overboard out the vent, if the aircraft is parked on a slope with the left wing down. |
Originally Posted by thing
(Post 7900578)
We have a 152 (the unfeasibly light one...) that throughout flight drips fuel from the fuel vent, still haven't figured that one out either... |
For fuel injected engines it is a different story as you must have a central collector tank in order to have a both setting even in high wing aircraft. Placing the fuel selector to left will not stop fuel moving from the right tank to the left tank via the vent line and then overboard out the vent, if the aircraft is parked on a slope with the left wing down. All in all a clever and completely foolproof setup. The only mistake you can make is to fly deliberately out of balance, with the fullest tank on the high side, to restore the fuel balance that way. That will just work counterproductive. |
In a low wing set-up, the fuel gets "sucked" up by the fuel pump(s). Hence no "both" setting - try to suck up from an empty glass and a full glass simultaneously through a pair of straws, and you will only get air. Whatever you do, if you change tanks before t/o give the engine time to stop (if it's going to) while you are still on the ground. Chap a couple of years ago who I knew didn't, and died following EFATO. |
Placing the fuel selector to left will not stop fuel moving from the right tank to the left tank via the vent line and then overboard out the vent, if the aircraft is parked on a slope with the left wing down. a) forgetting to select a single tank on parking (mucho fuel loss) b) remembering (most of time after (a)), parked on a slope, no fuel loss. All this aggravated by the FBO's habit of topping the tanks off at night. But the 172R has a 'both' position. I believe some 172's don't so maybe they're different. |
Victorian I agree. Handbook for the C182T suggests selecting right or left to prevent crossfeed when parked and it works.
It always uses more fuel from the left tank when both are selected. All the C172 and C182 I've flown have done that. Maybe it's my flying!:hmm: D.O. |
Originally Posted by Victorian
(Post 7903014)
But the 172R has a 'both' position. I believe some 172's don't so maybe they're different. |
Yet the SA bulldog with an injected engine and low wing, has a both position (and left/right) yet doesn't have a collector tank to my knowledge.
When parking you set it to left to prevent crossfeed and so loosing the fuel out the vent... Agree with the comment in that if you change your tanks on the ground then wait to see if the engine is going to stop. We startup on left. When warm enough to taxi we change to right, then change to both for power checks. I believe it takes 10 to 15 seconds at full power for fuel to get from a tank to the engine (judging by how long you can keep the plane inverted before the engine stops...). I think a lot of this comes down to actually knowing your steed and not to take things for granted! |
Sorry i think we jacked this thread from the OP....however... i reported the fuel differences when i got back on the ground, The CFI and i dipped the tanks there was a 20 odd liter difference (both tanks had been equally filled as per the sheet when i took off) so there was a difference,.. he also suggested i was not flying in balance... i was slightly offended being an ex glider pilot 'n' all. :)
However i have gone and looked at the photo's of the trip... (my dad got very snap happy) and...yep the G1000 suite tells me what i need to know... 22 kt crosswind from....you guessed it...the left.... for most of the flight. soo.... erm...not totally in balance then... even the GPS shows my crab... |
Hang on a mo' Kiwi,
Shirley the a/c once cruising aloft doesn't know it's a cross wind ? mike hallam. |
Shirley the a/c once cruising aloft doesn't know it's a cross wind ? |
Gravity still works in a crosswind wing down crab dunnit?
|
Shirley the a/c Oh, did you mean surely? FBW |
As Mike points out there is a difference between flying in a cross wind and flying out of balance.
Be careful what you trust off a G1000 in a 172 as well, it can only work on the sensor data it has available. In the case of the 172's float based fuel level sensors, that data is often a fairy tale. |
Originally Posted by Fly-by-Wife
(Post 7905710)
What a lovely name for an aeroplane, Mike.
Oh, did you mean surely? |
Be careful what you trust off a G1000 in a 172 as well If correct, that says to me that if you choose to fly out of balance you had better not take the G1000's calculation of wind very seriously. I haven't actually experimented by flying the 172 sideways on purpose and seeing how what the G1000 reports for wind changes. |
Fuel tanks are not very deep, there cannot be a significant increase in pressure feed down the fuel line.
I always thought that you select the fullest tank if there is an imbalance simply to bring the aircraft back into balance, why select the other tank and make the balance issue worse? On a 172 with L,R, Both and off settings the fuel will crossfeed in both and off but not in L or R. So if you are flying out of balance with Both selected then you will end up with an imbalance and as has already been mentioned if you park on a sideways slope then fuel will fill the lower tank if Both or Off is selected. Expensive if it is left wing down! |
a crosswind wing down crab |
Use the "Both" position for take-off and landing. In the cruise select the higher tank until the fuel is "balanced" then back to "both". On a long flight you might have to "balance" the fuel more than once. I use an egg timer to remind me to put it back to both.
However, If the lack of fuel is becoming an issue with both tanks below 1/4, it might be a good idea to select left or right tank. Run the engine on that tank until it starts to cough (run dry), immediately select the other tank and find somewhere to land!!!! Bob. |
yep the G1000 suite tells me what i need to know... 22 kt crosswind from....you guessed it...the left.... for most of the flight. soo.... erm...not totally in balance then... even the GPS shows my crab... I do hope you are pax, and not a pilot. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 01:04. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.