cheapest way to build hours
 

Hi,

I'm currently doing my PPL training in Blackpool, UK, and once I have completed it (Hopefully in 45 hours) I want to Proceed to do my CPL. However this requires 150 hours total time. So this means after my training I will need to build up 105 hours.
So I have researched all over the place to try and find the cheapest method to build hours, including dry lease, rental, clubs, even ownership.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I will even go abroad for a few weeks and rent a plane like what my instructor did. If I do build my hours abroad, does anyone have any suggestions into which country will provide the cheapest flying.

Summer's coming!

Buy a cheap single seat LAA type and fly the pants off it! Great way to learn and have fun at the cheapest price available. At the end, sell it for almost or sometimes more than you bought it for.

:ok:

is in an aircraft which is quite popular, registration G-BIRO :)

It's seen a fair bit of use though...

Quote:
the cheapest method to build hours
is in an aircraft which is quite popular, registration G-BIRO

It's seen a fair bit of use though...


I can see high costs involved with getting that running again...


Was the tug pilot route not the cheapest?

Para dropping is another area where it is/was common to get paid even if on just a PPL (no CPL). Especially in Spain or somewhere where the wx is nice so you fly all day.

No cheaper way to build hours than to get paid for flying.

That's what most PPL instructors do after all; they need to build 1000hrs somehow; then they get an airline RHS job and that is then enough for an ATPL which is 1500hrs of which 500 needs to be in a multi pilot plane.

Cheapest way to build hours towards a CPL has to be renting a C150 in Arizona.

Once you've checked out you can fly for only £65/hour - without the risk your "cheap single seat LAA type" will deliver a large unexpected bill.

http://www.tigerclub.co.uk/images/Snowturb_2.jpg

Small in size - but big on fun.

The Tiger Club - Turbulents

OC619

I did my hour building in a Cessna 150 which I had bought of a flying school. As you are going for hours, speed in a plane is not really a concern, actually the longer it takes to get where you want to be, the better.

You might look for a really cheap airframe, fly it to your target of 150 hours and then sell it on, or quite possibly you might find that you're actually fond enough of it to continue flying it afterwards.

Cheap airframes to fly and which have few maintenance issues are the said Cessna 150, the Cherokee 140 or also C172s.

Or if you want to you your flight time in as few flights as possible, check out this one: PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions it's even quite cheap to buy and has decent engine hours. That one has an endurance of about 8-9 hours (400 Liters Avgas) and makes quite a nice traveller for later. so basically, you could get your 150 hours together with minimal landig fees :cool:

There is something very appealing about the Turbulents on skis... :ok:

I'm not sure how practical finding somewhere you can get a lot of hours towing is....

Certainly at the gliding clubs (2) I've been a member of:

• There was never a shortage of members who were queueing up to fly the tug
• Most glider pilots would prefer to fly behind a tuggie with, at least, a Silver 'C' (more likely to get good value from the tow)

Don't know if callum's experience is different.

OC619

Hours
 

Hi
I might b able to help have sent you a pm

Pete

No cheap way
 

Usually the least complicated is the cheapest in the long run, tugging gliders may tot up the hours but it will do nothing for your navigation skills.

LAA types are a better option until a big bill turns up.

If you rent you will pay more but any technical problems are not yours.

The best value is probably a good rental deal that will let you do a lot of navigation well away from base. This will hone your skills for the (f)ATPL skills test and save you money on navigation training.

This was sent to me today:

The appeal of vintage LSAs

I've been flying for 10 years now at a direct hourly cost that's slowly risen to the equivalent of £15/hr on Avgas.... using non-alcohol Mogas in the UK it wouldn't be a whole lot more. Obviously the indirect costs dominate for this scenario - mainly storage, cost of money and liability insurance, but flying does not have to be expensive per hour if you can keep those costs under control. I've had no large maintenance bills and given the good condition and extreme simplicity of the aircraft, I don't anticipate them.... ever.

If the OP could work a local deal to get some seat time in a similar aircraft, that would be good.

It's going to sound unsympathetic, and I don't intend it unkindly, but on the whole, it takes a lot of people's work to get a plane into the air. We all want to fly with appropriate safety and security, and that costs. Sure, if you can fly a modest non C of A type aircraft, and mitigate costs with your personal effort, and you'll be an even better pilot for it. If it's a C of A plane, people earn their living maintaining them, and are entitled to not feel "dealt down" to cheap.

When you become a commercial pilot, you will expect to be fairly paid for your skill and effort, and some of that is to return to you your investment in getting to where you are in aviation. You'll be a person providing an aviation service.

If you are renting a plane, you have to be willing to cover the costs of that. If someone would like to give you a gift, that's super, but otherwise, being airborne ground costs, someone has to pay for it....

I agree with those who suggest that you buy a very modest plane, and pound the hours onto it. I did that 26 years ago, and I still have the plane. It's a sweet 150, which I have no plans to part with. You might find "cheap" to buy, and of course, buyer beware, there are deals out there. But you should not expect to find "cheap" to rent - those places just don't sustain themselves. It's false economy to enter into business with people who are cutting corners to provide a cheap service.

Everyone who hires a new commercial pilot knows that they worked hard, and paid well to get there. It's just the rite of passage....

dalef the answer partly depends on your skill set and the opportunities near you.

If you are good with mechanical bits and pieces and can afford 5-6k, then you could buy an LAA single seat aircraft and the chances of a big bill would be almost zero as you would do all your own maintenance etc under LAA supervision. You are very likely to get back what you paid to purchase it provided you took care with the maintenance etc. Such a machine is likely to cost around £300 third party insurance, £600 in maintenance, burn 10plh of Mogas and cost around £1000 a year in hangarage provided you can find a local strip.

Another possibility is a share in something local to you. This will reduce the “big bill” risk as any expense will be split across all the members of the group. Some groups do not like hour builders, but some are desperate for people to fly the aircraft. A single seat aircraft like the one mentioned above split say 5 ways is very cheap flying.

The US 150 has already been mentioned and a solution I do not know much about.

Rod1

So why not do an IR rather than boring holes in the sky? You only need 50 hours PIC on cross country flights to start the IR course (55 hours) and then you get a credit of 10 hours towards the CPL!

A PPL with an IR is more use than a CPL without one!

Whopity
 

All you say is true but it fails to adress the fact that most PPL holders don't have the depth of flying experience to take on the IR with so few hours.

I am sure that there are the occasional very bright students who could do it but I have only seen a few in twenty years of instructing. Much better these people build some experience with long flights over unfamiliar routes and then take on the IR when they have a little more time under their belts.

Get the PPL first. Worry about the CPL once you've got the PPL.

(Also remember that the CPL isn't much use without an ME/IR if you're trying to make a living from it (unless you're going instructing which you can now do on a PPL), requires a Class 1 medical, they all have the more frequent renewals and pilot jobs are virtually non-existent).

For all you know it might take you 70 hours to do the PPL (and depending how you're doing it, it might take you 12-18 months)! Then maybe 20 hours for an IR/R, and with a bit of touring, you'll easily get to 150.

If you've not even got the PPL, I'd suggest it's a bit early to worry about cheap hour building. And if you're already worried about cost - start researching how much it'll cost for both the CPL and other tickets, and how you're going to keep that current.

cheapest way to build hours
 

I didn't know you can instruct on a ppl now... Is the class 1 all thats needed?

Pilot Lyons: Before you can learn to instruct you need to learn to fly. It will help if you can learn to look up information like "what qualifications do I need to be an instructor?" rather than rely on getting help from this forum. Please do not think everyone and his dog are prepared to subsidise your flying. The OP has been given some good advice in reply to a reasonable question.

You have now jumped in with your query before taking the trouble to look for yourself. What makes you think students should pay for your CPL? What can you offer them in return?

You will need to complete an instructor training course. Then you need to persuade a flying school to employ you.

cheapest way to build hours
 

Wow! Who said i was wanting people to pay for my cpl? Im not even planning to do it!

Oh and i am more than capable of looking it up but simply don't want to as i have no interest in doing it.

I simply asked a question based on a comment made by someone else.. Pull your reins in piper... I certainly hope YOU don't instruct when you jump the gun like this

As the requirements to be a drop pilot exceed the requirements for a CPL then you are as usual barking up the wrong tree.

I would also be interested to see your evidence of PPL drop pilots being paid.....

Do you need to Hour Build at all?
 

This is not strictly correct

You could immediately go straight on to an Intgrated CPL course.
This is a 150 Hour course, but (with a PPL) you can reduce it by up
to 50% of hours previously flown (up to max 40hour reduction if
no Night Rating / max 45 hour if Night rating held)

So, assuming PPL acheived in 45 hours + 2 hour Skill Test, only 1261/2
hours required on CPL course. Assume 2 hour Skill Test and
CPL could be issued with 1761/2 hours total flight time.

A Modular CPL course is only 25 hours long, but you must have 150 hours
before you can start the course.
A CPL will, however, only be issued once you have 200 hours flight time.

These 200 hours must have certain elements to them (hours PIC, Nav,etc)
so make sure you meet these as part of any "hour building"

The "Gotcha" on the Modular CPL course is that EASA currently require 6 hours
flight time in a Multi-Engine aircraft.

It has always been possible to instruct on a PPL! You don't even need a Class 1, but you do need CPL level knowledge.

structured training will always be more effective than wandering around hour building when the student has no real idea what experience they are trying to accrue!

Then why did you waste our time asking here?

cheapest way to build hours
 

Maybe because i love watching the know it all pprunners "battle out" their silly word games for entertainment

Whopity
 

Quote -structured training will always be more effective than wandering around hour building when the student has no real idea what experience they are trying to accrue!

While I agree with the statement I would suggest that we'll planned and properly flown navigation practice is not "wandering about" ( with no real idea ). It is in fact practicing the basic navigation skills and techniques that are required for the CPL skills test as well as the ability to operate an aircraft away from the club environment where their every move is supervised by instructors.

When one of the typical guys who rents one of my aircraft wakes up in the morning and he is half way down France he has to make all the flight preparations himself based on the information that he gathers, he is not mollycoddled by instructors who have to authorize his flights, because the guy is outside this protective environment this personal responsability builds airmanship skills quickly.

I regularly fly with the product of the big training companies and while their general knowlage and technical skills are high their decision making and manual flying skills are far below that of the guys who have reached the right hand seat via the self improver route.

Flying is about far more than the narrow acquisition of technical skills as without flying experience and airmanship it is not posable to properly and safely direct the technical skills.

It is due to the very narrow nature of the flying education path that you recommend that I find myself having to encourage, help and mentor the latest generation of magenta line heroes in the skills of raw data and visual flying.

Thanks A and C for intercepting and answering my question before even posting it! :)

I've been hours building on my own for a couple of months and while I've done the obligatory photo flights over the house, most of it has been flying thoroughly planned XC routes, tracking VOR radials, transiting controlled airspace, etc. I'd like to think I'm not "wandering around", I'm aware of the CPL requirements and plan every flight around improving the skills required for it.

I looked into these structured hours building courses but some cost double what I'm paying for the same amount of hours. I still get guidance "on-demand" from an instructor friend and occasionally poke a couple of FO friends that went modular for some advice. They all agree there's no point me paying for any structured hours building.

I agree entirely
However if they don't posses the necessary skills and nobody is training them, many of the hours flown will be "wandering about" because they don't know any better. If experience is gained over time the learning process can be good, but hour building by its very nature is trying to gain experience by cramming hours into the shortest time available, this seldom imparts meaningful experience. If an Integrated student can move straight into IR training, why should a Modular student be any different?

If you can't do an IR after 50 hours X-cty, perhaps being a commercial pilot is not the right career path!

Seems like you joined in, too

Doesn't it just, too! :ok:And it's fun, which is not a negligeable aspect of flying. Until you get a job doing it, which depending on what the job is, may change that aspect. So enjoy the hour building, it's the most freedom you will get.

Whopity
 

I think you are playing with words here, "hour building" is just that it is the process of accruing hours towards a qualification, the time scale is unspecified.

You also seem to think that instantly picking something up is the measure of a good pilot, people learn at different speeds and take different amounts of time to come to terms with different aspects of this business.

For me the two hardest things I have ever done in aviation where the IMC rating ( it was my first introduction to IF) and the Airbus A320 ground engineers CRS course ( the A320 pilots type rating was a piece of cake!). I am sure that others will tell a different story but I am sure that I would not have been ready to take on the full IR without a bit more time in the air than you suggest.

LAA
 

where are you based..?
I know there is a new LAA group setting up in scotland and North Weald using Rokospol Via 600kg..
good for touring and great for hour building.. glass cockpit etc

price be around £85 an hour or maybe less.

google, flyrokospol and you will see they sell the aircraft but i know they are setting up a members group at Cumbernauld or possibly Prestwick and maybe another aircraft at North weald nr London