cheapest way to build hours
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cheapest way to build hours
Hi,
I'm currently doing my PPL training in Blackpool, UK, and once I have completed it (Hopefully in 45 hours) I want to Proceed to do my CPL. However this requires 150 hours total time. So this means after my training I will need to build up 105 hours.
So I have researched all over the place to try and find the cheapest method to build hours, including dry lease, rental, clubs, even ownership.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I will even go abroad for a few weeks and rent a plane like what my instructor did. If I do build my hours abroad, does anyone have any suggestions into which country will provide the cheapest flying.
I'm currently doing my PPL training in Blackpool, UK, and once I have completed it (Hopefully in 45 hours) I want to Proceed to do my CPL. However this requires 150 hours total time. So this means after my training I will need to build up 105 hours.
So I have researched all over the place to try and find the cheapest method to build hours, including dry lease, rental, clubs, even ownership.
Does anyone have any suggestions? I will even go abroad for a few weeks and rent a plane like what my instructor did. If I do build my hours abroad, does anyone have any suggestions into which country will provide the cheapest flying.
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Summer's coming!
Buy a cheap single seat LAA type and fly the pants off it! Great way to learn and have fun at the cheapest price available. At the end, sell it for almost or sometimes more than you bought it for.
Buy a cheap single seat LAA type and fly the pants off it! Great way to learn and have fun at the cheapest price available. At the end, sell it for almost or sometimes more than you bought it for.
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Quote:
the cheapest method to build hours
is in an aircraft which is quite popular, registration G-BIRO
It's seen a fair bit of use though...
I can see high costs involved with getting that running again...
Was the tug pilot route not the cheapest?
the cheapest method to build hours
is in an aircraft which is quite popular, registration G-BIRO
It's seen a fair bit of use though...
I can see high costs involved with getting that running again...
Was the tug pilot route not the cheapest?
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Para dropping is another area where it is/was common to get paid even if on just a PPL (no CPL). Especially in Spain or somewhere where the wx is nice so you fly all day.
No cheaper way to build hours than to get paid for flying.
That's what most PPL instructors do after all; they need to build 1000hrs somehow; then they get an airline RHS job and that is then enough for an ATPL which is 1500hrs of which 500 needs to be in a multi pilot plane.
Cheapest way to build hours towards a CPL has to be renting a C150 in Arizona.
No cheaper way to build hours than to get paid for flying.
That's what most PPL instructors do after all; they need to build 1000hrs somehow; then they get an airline RHS job and that is then enough for an ATPL which is 1500hrs of which 500 needs to be in a multi pilot plane.
Cheapest way to build hours towards a CPL has to be renting a C150 in Arizona.
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Once you've checked out you can fly for only £65/hour - without the risk your "cheap single seat LAA type" will deliver a large unexpected bill.
Small in size - but big on fun.
The Tiger Club - Turbulents
OC619
Small in size - but big on fun.
The Tiger Club - Turbulents
OC619
I did my hour building in a Cessna 150 which I had bought of a flying school. As you are going for hours, speed in a plane is not really a concern, actually the longer it takes to get where you want to be, the better.
You might look for a really cheap airframe, fly it to your target of 150 hours and then sell it on, or quite possibly you might find that you're actually fond enough of it to continue flying it afterwards.
Cheap airframes to fly and which have few maintenance issues are the said Cessna 150, the Cherokee 140 or also C172s.
Or if you want to you your flight time in as few flights as possible, check out this one: PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions it's even quite cheap to buy and has decent engine hours. That one has an endurance of about 8-9 hours (400 Liters Avgas) and makes quite a nice traveller for later. so basically, you could get your 150 hours together with minimal landig fees
You might look for a really cheap airframe, fly it to your target of 150 hours and then sell it on, or quite possibly you might find that you're actually fond enough of it to continue flying it afterwards.
Cheap airframes to fly and which have few maintenance issues are the said Cessna 150, the Cherokee 140 or also C172s.
Or if you want to you your flight time in as few flights as possible, check out this one: PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions it's even quite cheap to buy and has decent engine hours. That one has an endurance of about 8-9 hours (400 Liters Avgas) and makes quite a nice traveller for later. so basically, you could get your 150 hours together with minimal landig fees
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I'm not sure how practical finding somewhere you can get a lot of hours towing is....
Certainly at the gliding clubs (2) I've been a member of:
Don't know if callum's experience is different.
OC619
Certainly at the gliding clubs (2) I've been a member of:
- There was never a shortage of members who were queueing up to fly the tug
- Most glider pilots would prefer to fly behind a tuggie with, at least, a Silver 'C' (more likely to get good value from the tow)
Don't know if callum's experience is different.
OC619
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No cheap way
Usually the least complicated is the cheapest in the long run, tugging gliders may tot up the hours but it will do nothing for your navigation skills.
LAA types are a better option until a big bill turns up.
If you rent you will pay more but any technical problems are not yours.
The best value is probably a good rental deal that will let you do a lot of navigation well away from base. This will hone your skills for the (f)ATPL skills test and save you money on navigation training.
LAA types are a better option until a big bill turns up.
If you rent you will pay more but any technical problems are not yours.
The best value is probably a good rental deal that will let you do a lot of navigation well away from base. This will hone your skills for the (f)ATPL skills test and save you money on navigation training.
This was sent to me today:
The appeal of vintage LSAs
I've been flying for 10 years now at a direct hourly cost that's slowly risen to the equivalent of £15/hr on Avgas.... using non-alcohol Mogas in the UK it wouldn't be a whole lot more. Obviously the indirect costs dominate for this scenario - mainly storage, cost of money and liability insurance, but flying does not have to be expensive per hour if you can keep those costs under control. I've had no large maintenance bills and given the good condition and extreme simplicity of the aircraft, I don't anticipate them.... ever.
If the OP could work a local deal to get some seat time in a similar aircraft, that would be good.
The appeal of vintage LSAs
I've been flying for 10 years now at a direct hourly cost that's slowly risen to the equivalent of £15/hr on Avgas.... using non-alcohol Mogas in the UK it wouldn't be a whole lot more. Obviously the indirect costs dominate for this scenario - mainly storage, cost of money and liability insurance, but flying does not have to be expensive per hour if you can keep those costs under control. I've had no large maintenance bills and given the good condition and extreme simplicity of the aircraft, I don't anticipate them.... ever.
If the OP could work a local deal to get some seat time in a similar aircraft, that would be good.
Moderator
It's going to sound unsympathetic, and I don't intend it unkindly, but on the whole, it takes a lot of people's work to get a plane into the air. We all want to fly with appropriate safety and security, and that costs. Sure, if you can fly a modest non C of A type aircraft, and mitigate costs with your personal effort, and you'll be an even better pilot for it. If it's a C of A plane, people earn their living maintaining them, and are entitled to not feel "dealt down" to cheap.
When you become a commercial pilot, you will expect to be fairly paid for your skill and effort, and some of that is to return to you your investment in getting to where you are in aviation. You'll be a person providing an aviation service.
If you are renting a plane, you have to be willing to cover the costs of that. If someone would like to give you a gift, that's super, but otherwise, being airborne ground costs, someone has to pay for it....
I agree with those who suggest that you buy a very modest plane, and pound the hours onto it. I did that 26 years ago, and I still have the plane. It's a sweet 150, which I have no plans to part with. You might find "cheap" to buy, and of course, buyer beware, there are deals out there. But you should not expect to find "cheap" to rent - those places just don't sustain themselves. It's false economy to enter into business with people who are cutting corners to provide a cheap service.
Everyone who hires a new commercial pilot knows that they worked hard, and paid well to get there. It's just the rite of passage....
When you become a commercial pilot, you will expect to be fairly paid for your skill and effort, and some of that is to return to you your investment in getting to where you are in aviation. You'll be a person providing an aviation service.
If you are renting a plane, you have to be willing to cover the costs of that. If someone would like to give you a gift, that's super, but otherwise, being airborne ground costs, someone has to pay for it....
I agree with those who suggest that you buy a very modest plane, and pound the hours onto it. I did that 26 years ago, and I still have the plane. It's a sweet 150, which I have no plans to part with. You might find "cheap" to buy, and of course, buyer beware, there are deals out there. But you should not expect to find "cheap" to rent - those places just don't sustain themselves. It's false economy to enter into business with people who are cutting corners to provide a cheap service.
Everyone who hires a new commercial pilot knows that they worked hard, and paid well to get there. It's just the rite of passage....
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dalef the answer partly depends on your skill set and the opportunities near you.
If you are good with mechanical bits and pieces and can afford 5-6k, then you could buy an LAA single seat aircraft and the chances of a big bill would be almost zero as you would do all your own maintenance etc under LAA supervision. You are very likely to get back what you paid to purchase it provided you took care with the maintenance etc. Such a machine is likely to cost around £300 third party insurance, £600 in maintenance, burn 10plh of Mogas and cost around £1000 a year in hangarage provided you can find a local strip.
Another possibility is a share in something local to you. This will reduce the “big bill” risk as any expense will be split across all the members of the group. Some groups do not like hour builders, but some are desperate for people to fly the aircraft. A single seat aircraft like the one mentioned above split say 5 ways is very cheap flying.
The US 150 has already been mentioned and a solution I do not know much about.
Rod1
If you are good with mechanical bits and pieces and can afford 5-6k, then you could buy an LAA single seat aircraft and the chances of a big bill would be almost zero as you would do all your own maintenance etc under LAA supervision. You are very likely to get back what you paid to purchase it provided you took care with the maintenance etc. Such a machine is likely to cost around £300 third party insurance, £600 in maintenance, burn 10plh of Mogas and cost around £1000 a year in hangarage provided you can find a local strip.
Another possibility is a share in something local to you. This will reduce the “big bill” risk as any expense will be split across all the members of the group. Some groups do not like hour builders, but some are desperate for people to fly the aircraft. A single seat aircraft like the one mentioned above split say 5 ways is very cheap flying.
The US 150 has already been mentioned and a solution I do not know much about.
Rod1
However this requires 150 hours total time. So this means after my training I will need to build up 105 hours.
A PPL with an IR is more use than a CPL without one!
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Whopity
All you say is true but it fails to adress the fact that most PPL holders don't have the depth of flying experience to take on the IR with so few hours.
I am sure that there are the occasional very bright students who could do it but I have only seen a few in twenty years of instructing. Much better these people build some experience with long flights over unfamiliar routes and then take on the IR when they have a little more time under their belts.
I am sure that there are the occasional very bright students who could do it but I have only seen a few in twenty years of instructing. Much better these people build some experience with long flights over unfamiliar routes and then take on the IR when they have a little more time under their belts.
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Originally Posted by dalef
I'm currently doing my PPL training in Blackpool, UK, and once I have completed it (Hopefully in 45 hours) I want to Proceed to do my CPL.
(Also remember that the CPL isn't much use without an ME/IR if you're trying to make a living from it (unless you're going instructing which you can now do on a PPL), requires a Class 1 medical, they all have the more frequent renewals and pilot jobs are virtually non-existent).
For all you know it might take you 70 hours to do the PPL (and depending how you're doing it, it might take you 12-18 months)! Then maybe 20 hours for an IR/R, and with a bit of touring, you'll easily get to 150.
If you've not even got the PPL, I'd suggest it's a bit early to worry about cheap hour building. And if you're already worried about cost - start researching how much it'll cost for both the CPL and other tickets, and how you're going to keep that current.
Last edited by Slopey; 20th Feb 2013 at 08:46.
Pilot Lyons: Before you can learn to instruct you need to learn to fly. It will help if you can learn to look up information like "what qualifications do I need to be an instructor?" rather than rely on getting help from this forum. Please do not think everyone and his dog are prepared to subsidise your flying. The OP has been given some good advice in reply to a reasonable question.
You have now jumped in with your query before taking the trouble to look for yourself. What makes you think students should pay for your CPL? What can you offer them in return?
You will need to complete an instructor training course. Then you need to persuade a flying school to employ you.
You have now jumped in with your query before taking the trouble to look for yourself. What makes you think students should pay for your CPL? What can you offer them in return?
You will need to complete an instructor training course. Then you need to persuade a flying school to employ you.
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cheapest way to build hours
Wow! Who said i was wanting people to pay for my cpl? Im not even planning to do it!
Oh and i am more than capable of looking it up but simply don't want to as i have no interest in doing it.
I simply asked a question based on a comment made by someone else.. Pull your reins in piper... I certainly hope YOU don't instruct when you jump the gun like this
Oh and i am more than capable of looking it up but simply don't want to as i have no interest in doing it.
I simply asked a question based on a comment made by someone else.. Pull your reins in piper... I certainly hope YOU don't instruct when you jump the gun like this