Best GA airport for Paris?
 

Toussus and Pontoise are now NOTAMed as not having customs, Le Bourget is very expensive and has no AVGAS, how is one meant to fly directly to an airfield near Paris from the UK in a light aircraft? :confused:

Suggestions?

The last time I flew into Le Bourget I got AVGAS; are you sure that it is no longer available?

When was that? Just looking at the French AIP in only lists JET A1 as being available.

Hi!

Depending on what aircraft you fly, Lognes could be an option. I flew there quite often in piston twins. The restaurant on site is an absolute must!

Here is a link that may be useful otherwise: Customs Withdrawn From Many French Airfields | FlySynergy

Happy landings
max

I have not been there in the last three years, I called them this morning and you are right, no more AVGAS.

Which side of paris do you want to get to?

Well the centre really but coming from the north...

Lognes without a shadow of a doubt.

No distance from the train station and direct line into the center - quick and regular trains.

Hard runway and nice and friendly.

Only possible draw backs are - no customs, land at L2K or for a cheaper option Lille to clear, fuel is cash or fuel card (although they say they take credit cards), and for the uninitiated you need to be comfortable with the airspace around C de G.

I would second the restaurant and there is a good cheap hotel on the field and better ones close by.

I would do the train thing as well.

Only thing which might catch you is opening hours with the small ones.

But a night in a local hotel will be less than you would get charged for using one of the big fields.

How about St Cyr L'Ecole? (You'd have to clear customs en route, Le Touquet perhaps?).

PS - I have not tried it, but thinking about it laterally, Lille for Paris might make perfect sense.

The landing fee and parking are really cheap. There is full Customs and the train station is close, with a bus every half an hour or loads of taxis. It must be high speed service to the center of Paris. The opening hours would not preclude night flights or an early start.

My earlier suggestion was Lognes but my guess is that in a time only consideration (given you would have to stop somewhere en route to Lognes, and it would probably take as long on the train and to fly Lille Lognes) that Lille would be as quick if not quicker.

Oh yes, and Lille have Avgas, and take credit cards.

Best GA airport for Paris?
 

Lille to Paris is about an hour by TGV, so that's not a bad idea. You could also try Beauvais, closer in but relatively slow connections to central Paris.

I think for central Paris door-to-door nothing would compete in time with the Eurostar (it's top speed is significantly faster than almost all light aircraft)!

However I have a friend living in the rural south of Paris and intend to pay him a flying visit. So does anyone have any experience of any of the following airfields:

- Toussus le Noble
- Bretigny sur Orge
- Melun-Villaroche
- anywhere else in that neck of woods

Thanks,
KP

That's interesting actually...I looked at Beauvais train times and they are typically an hour and a half to Gare du Nord if I've read the schedule properly. Lille is three times the distance to Paris...just goes to show how much faster the TGV is than a normal train.

I plan for 155 knots and given the channel is in the way and its much further to get to Ashford or London in the first place I will beat the Eurostar every day of the week. ;) I will even comfortably beat it with a stop at L2K, Lognes, taxi and train but direct Lille and the Eurostar I suspect has the edge on going to Lognes.

Then again if we flew to save time, we probably wouldn't. I always reckon that by the time you get to the airport, sort yourself out, and get from the airport to where you are going at the other end its got to be at least a two and a half hour car journey to save any time or someone has to put some water in the way. On the other hand I did Bembridge the other day in 15 minutes, try that by car and ferry!

Toussus and Melun are both find and have been to both in the last few years anyway. No problems and as exactly as the AIP. I have never been to Bretigny.

Contacttower - if you give Lille a go, you will be directed to the huge GA apron. You pay in the deserted terminal in front of the apron. If you belong to a flying school the fee is discounted and its about 12E. You can leave the airport via the main terminal but if you dont want to wait for the bus to take you over there is a gate just past the GA terminal. You still have to walk to the terminal for the buses or taxis but the taxi driver can drop you back to the gate. Customs can be a pain. If an international flight has just arrived you are straight through - if not in the usual way maybe they have to drag them away from the coffee shop and it can take half an hour. The buses as I mentioned are every half an hour from the front of the terminal and go the station, there is usually a fleet of taxis all looking for a fare. Lille ATC are excellent and will give you a service from the French coast if you wish. It is of course a straight line from the coast to Lille with nothing to bother you except perhaps the nuclear facility at Calais if you happen to be that far East and low level.

Calais or Abbeville both still offer Douane. Latter is nicely along on the way Eu 3 for VLA. Gas there too.

mike hallam.

Fuji,

Lognes now also has no customs anymore? I understood it would be the last one to retain customs.

The French really seem to have it in for direct flights from the UK and Switzerland... Pity. France used to be one of my favorite places to fly to, but these times are practically gone by now. If I need to land on a 2 hour trip for customs, flying starts to become very unattractive indeed. One more nail in the coffin for GA in Europe.

The short answer is that Paris is and AFAIK always has been about as "accessible" to GA as London is "accessible" to GA :)

It's easily 2 hours to the city centre, depending on details.

Very bad planning of the transport infrastructure, really.

The bizjets can get closer, and they can go into Toussus and get Customs (at some price) because I've seen some on the Biggin departures board. But to a jet client a £500-1000 fee is a non-event.

To be fair I think London is much better, if you are really organised you can be at Victoria in about 45 mins from Biggin Hill; 15 minutes taxi to Bromley South station and then if you get on a fast service 16-20 mins into Victoria...I add 10 mins for the likely cumulative time in between different transport modes...

Biggin has customs, AVGAS, is reasonably priced and the staff are very helpful...I just wish it had an equivalent in Paris.

How long ago was that? The NOTAM of no customs is quite recent. Not that I'd be prepared to pay £1000 for the privilege but how does one find out about these special arrangements? Also for a biz jet needing customs wouldn't they just go to Le Bourget?

Elstree is better. ;)

To be fair Lognes is no different in terms of time, sans customs which is a shame.

Blame the politicians for Schengen, or not as is the case.

I saw it there a few months ago, well after the well known Customs changes.

However, there is significant "evidence" that people are still flying to some of these airports, direct to/from the UK, with a full encouragement from the airport itself. Not sure I would try it myself.

Well, yes...

OK so has anyone been to Beauvais recently...have heard stories about issues with security...?

Same as anywhere else depends who is on. If you don't have some form of airport pass you might have issues. The type or level of pass doesn't actually seem to matter just that you have one.

Its not unkown for some private crews to get an official looking crew card made up which airport security seem happy with even though the card makes no pretence at all at being a security airport pass and just states they are a pilot with a photo. Remember to put a return address on the back and have a magnetc strip.

Sounds like a business opportunity MJ.

What are French jails like???

Been there a couple of months ago, but only departing as pax on a commercial flight. There definitely were some movements of light a/c, saw a couple of Cessnas taking off.

Not the most accessible of airports, though. Unless you rent a car, you need to get to the train station (taxi or shuttle bus), then take a rather slow train to Gare du Nord. From memory, this takes between 1 and 1 1/2 hours. So airport-central Paris is 2 hours at least. IMHO you might well be better off in Lille.

I operated into there for 3 months with no pass. Quite liked the place to be honest. The ground handlers would deliver pizza to the aircraft and the dispatcher was a bit of a babe.

More specifically the issue I had heard was that of getting stuck while a Ryanair flight was being loaded...ie there isn't a separate way of getting through customs/security if a commercial flight is being loaded.

Your knackard there if the ryanair aircraft are in. They all come in at about the same time.

You won't get fuel or anything else until they have departed. Thats from about an hour before until after they leave.

The airport gets pretty hefty penalty charges if anything on the ground delays them. If you can avoid it when they are in its a nice airport.

Just looking at the Beauvais timetable there seem to be commercial flights pretty much all the time. I think I'm better off doing a customs stop in Deauville and then going to one of the small Parisian airfields actually...might seem like a pain but it could be turned into a nice lunch stop...

Yep - as mentioned earlier you will receive a very fine lunch at Lognes - the restaurant was excellent last time I was there at any rate! There are also some very good restaurants in Lille if you prefer the train.

Do let us know what you finally decide and how you get on - always interesting.

If it is just a customs stop then places like Calais or Le Havre are cheaper and as quick.

Overall the suggestion of Lille is almost bound to be quicker....

No Customs at Calais - I doubt there is customs at Le Havre any more.

Clearly the French are doing their best to keep the great unwashed the right side of the English Channel. ;)

Long discussion on another fora - customs supposedly to remain at Calais and Le Havre not on the list of those withdrawn.

Oh good. Be interested to know if that is still current and what arrangements are in place.

I tried the Lille and TGV option on Saturday; worked OK but to honest the whole process was rather cumbersome. Flight to Lille was quick and on arrival a car met us at the general aviation apron and took us to the main terminal for customs etc. To my surprise there weren't any taxis outside (I guess we must have been in a bit of a lull of commercial flights) so had to wait about 15-20 mins for a taxi to come.

TGV then took about an hour into Gare du Nord. On paper it doesn't sound that bad but whenever you have multiple modes of transport involved; taxi, train etc one loses little bits of time in a cumulative fashion. The TGV is fast (ironically much faster than the train from Beauvais to Paris despite being three times the distance!) but the service is only hourly so unless you time things well there will inevitably be a wait for it.

I think Toussus might have been quicker because a stop at Deauville or something could have been done very quickly and once there we could have taken a taxi to a station and then quick train into the centre.

Intersting thanks for letting us know. I agree there is always inevitable delays stringing together a route plan and each segement rarely dovetails.

So next time I'll try Toussus or Saint-Cyr with a customs stop somewhere on the way...

Is there not something that AOPA or someone could try and do about the Paris situation? I mean at the moment this is a bit ridiculous that one can't fly direct to reasonably priced airfield in Paris from the UK.

Try lognes as mentioned earlier its where i always go

Jeppview still has Longes (LFPL) listed as Airport of Entry.

So what is going on, has it customs or not?

I understood that it is the last customs GA Airport in the Paris area.

Can anyone confirm that?