EASA Licencing
 

Has anyone here deciphered the new EASA licencing rules and how this will impact those of us who fly in the UK in a G or N reg plane VFR?

Mike,

I'm surprised that this hasn't been discussed in depth on here already or on other forums, considering that the forthcoming changes affect us all.

Nothing is finalised yet, but current indications from EASA are somewhat draconian. It seems likely that we're all going to step down one licence level on an interim basis, with a requirement for re-test under EASA regulations to recover the equivalent of original licence held. So, a PPL holder will become an NPPL, a CPL becomes a PPL, etc. When you take the test, you get your old licence back.

The medical changes are equally fierce. The Class 2 & NPPL medicals are to be abandoned, with all pilots moving to Class 1 testing. This will affect a lot of people, I'm sure.

What I find particularly irritating is the EASA flight plan requirement. All private flights will require two hours notice and an AFPEX submitted flight plan. Best apply for an account now, there seems to be an ever increasing backlog of account applications and it's taking three months or more to get on the system.

I'm sure there's more to come. There's some really heavy maintenance stuff, which I'm sure a maintenance expert will be along shortly to explain.

Also the GAR form will go, all aircraft will have to have a mode T transponder (which is mode S + additional BS) and the lower limit class C airspace will become 1000' AGL.

There's one major exception to all of these draconian measures though. Pigs will be allowed to fly without medical, license, maintenance/equipment requirements or flight plans.

Some threads on pprune should be marked with a health warning!:eek:

Well, everybody on here is supposed to have a Class 1 medical by now (see above) so your heart should be able to cope with some minor shocks, not?

You are not going to get a one-liner answer to such a one-liner Q :)

What exactly do you need to know?

I thought EASA was going to outlaw VFR flight meaning everyone would need IMC as a minimum...unless there is a cloud within 10km, in which case you need the full IR.

Except during the Olympics when all farm animals will need transponders.

Not all farm animals. Some are more equal than others.

EASA Licencing
 

Thanks for this, i wish i had not asked now! if we are all to have a class 1 medical how does that impact NPPL? - this will surely put a whole raft of pilots firmly on the ground for good - on the cost of the medical alone.

I cannot believe, as you say, there has not been much chatting re this as its nearly upon us and will affect all FAA certificated pilots in the UK.

Mikejohn, I guess the irony was lost on you. I'll put you out of your misery.

There's a 400+ post thread on the consequences of EASA on the IMC rating alone: http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...imcr-news.html

With just a bit more digging you should also be able to find the huge thread on the impact of EASA proposals on FAA licensed, EU resident pilots flying N-reg aircraft as well. IO540 is one of the top contributers there.

And there are similar threads on various other subjects, although other subjects don't seem to be as "hot" as these two. But just looking through the first five pages of the index should reveal several of them. Heck, the search function fortunately accepts four-letter acronyms like "EASA" so why not give that a try. (Sadly, in a world full of three-letter acronyms PPRuNe does not allow searches based on three letters alone. In that respect, EASA replacing JAA is a good thing.)

But ignore everything that was said on this thread. We were just playing with you. I had hoped the "pigs would fly" pun would make that clear.:ok:

EASA Licencing
 

Hahah - great sense of humour thank you for that - i was thinking at the time class 1 medical for all that wont work! many thanks for this will look at what you suggested.

The CAA publish a summary of the effect on G-reg operators here:
Licensing and Training Standards | EASA | Safety Regulation

The first link in the centre of the page is a detailed document, the second is to some FAQs.

PPL/IR have a summary for N-reg operators here: PPL/IR Europe - The Effect of EU Legislation on Foreign Registered Aircraft Operation - UPDATED & OPENED TO PUBLIC
It hasn't been update with the FCL008 NPA, but this won't impact VFR fliers, so the substance is still right I think

Anyone got any ideas as to the dates the CAA are working towards with regards to publishing their conversion reports for licences such as the NPPL?

Cheers

It's being worked on right now. I wouldn't worry about it, from what I know.

Given the similiar thread on the IMCr, that really left me with a chuckle.

Clearly one of the ones that know, or thinks they know, but arent saying.

David without wishing to be unkind you are very good at saying you know, but arent saying - its a bit playground. If you know, but cant say, please keep it to yourself. ;)

I know nothing, so I am not worried!

(Classic excuse for the behaviour of many students!)

Fuji,

When I say what I do I have a reason. As Secretary of NPLG I am privy to the draft conversion report, but it is not for me to publish details. CAA will do that when it is finalised.

Therefore I was giving my view, within the constraints on me. Don't you trust me?

David - I dont know you, so I have no basis for trusting you or not. On the basis of your posts, as that is all I have to go by, I would trust you.

I am delighted that you have given your view; I would have rather you said that in your opinion we shouldnt be worried about the conversion route for NPPL holders (if that is what you mean, because your post could also be interpreted to mean we dont need to worry about the conversion report being published soon, which was the question, not should we be worried about their findings) and left it at that.

Sorry if I am making an issue but the trend today annoys me of people making out they have information on the basis of which they can give assures without being prepared to disclose that information. It smaks too much of this whole process which has throughout been plagued by half truths, leaks, retractions and the usual nonesense which results in there being very little trust left between anyone. Not a happy state of affairs.

Fuji,

My intent was 'you need not worry about the conversion report in terms of conditions, based on what I know at this stage on the draft'.

When one works - voluntarily I add in my case - in a lead role for some of the main GA representative organisations in both the UK and Europe, which I have doing for 10 years now, one gets better results by playing by the rules of engagement. Which means not always being able to disclose every twist and turn of discussions and negotiations in an evolving environment where no one knows all the answers or even some of the answers. We do not negotiate in public, but we try to keep people informed reasonably from time to time of the main developments.

Anyway you can look me up as Chairman of the RAeC, President of Europe Air Sports, immediate past Chairman of the BGA, Secretary and past Chairman of NPLG Ltd, and member of the GA Alliance. I meet regularly with top level officials at EASA and the Commission as well as the UK CAA.

And I use my real name on this forum, which is another reason for being circumspect sometimes. Further, I deal in facts and try to avoid speculation. If I thought there was something in the pipeline to be worried about I would try and say so, within the limits I describe.

BTW, I wonder how it is that a large part of the LAPL licences are very similar to the UK NPPL and other UK comparable qualifications? Co-incidence?

On a related issue, has there been any progress on the medical front?

For example there is the present distinction between the Initial medical and the Renewal medical. In general terms, the UK and every other Euro CAA has allowed Demonstrated Ability (DA) on the latter but not the former. This is a corruption of the "safety system" because when you go on the BA 747 to Orlando, the two pilots up front have been flying on Renewal medicals for many years, so they have been allowed essentially unlimited uncorrected vision defects, unlimited uncorrected hearing loss, etc. Whereas any "Euro" IR has never been accessible to any initial applicant who fails the JAA audiogram in just one ear (except via a very complicated roundabout route which takes years to do, and may not even be available today) and I believe this remains the case for the FCL008 IR.

In 2008 I spoke face to face with Eric Sivel who said EASA will end this distinction, and will allow DA on initial medicals too - which is more or less what the FAA does.

Don't know the answer to that one.

Part Med, being Annex III of forthcoming Air Crew Regulation (i.e. Part FCL), is be published in the OJ towards the end of this month, and the AMCs are due in December. The Implementing Rules (Annex III) are believed to be the same as in the EASA Opinion 2010-07 at:
EASA - Opinions

NPLG Ltd is purely a licence recommendation company only. It does not agree NPPL policy, that is the responsibility of the NPPL Policy and Steering Committee.

The Chairman of the NPPL P&SC has yet to see the draft conversion report; nevertheless, he is grateful to David for letting him know that it does actually exist and will be asking the CAA for a copy soonest!

Mind you, as David has said, there probably won’t be anything to worry about!

But to which one? ;) (Sorry - cheap shot!).

May be a cheap shot but I know exactly what you mean.

But hey you were sitting to my right Beagle so there are two of us who can identify the individual :)

While on the subject of EASA licensing , does anyone know how these changes will affect someone holding a non JAA license , namely an Australian CASA PPL license .
I had planned to convert to CAA at some stage in the not too distant future .
How does the conversion to EASA go?
Am i best to wait and convert directly to EASA and avoid the CAA ? Is this possible? Cheers .

tismee,

Either way you will need to pass a skills test.

The JAR licence you get from the CAA will expire after 5 years & will need another cheque to turn into an EASA licence.

Direct to EASA will also involve written exams in air law & human performance & a minimum of 100 hours flight time.

C1.2 of Lasors
Penultimate page of EASA draft regulation

Thanks B4a , id say ill go directly for the EASA ticket.
Does these changes mean that the examining officers will be working for EASA and not the CAA . Will the current CAA examiners testing privildges carry over to EASA. Will EASA handle all the paperwork / applications ect ?

I think the CAA will become a competent authority it's a well set up procedure under European Law.


So they will be doing the testing in the UK at least, but they won't be making the rules any more.

So, just out of interest as there seem to be NPPL experienced people on this thread, what do you think will happen with NPPL(M) route. If you have a microlight license, and then you convert it at some point in the near future to an NPPL(SSEA), then will you be able to get an LAPL on that basis, or not? All very confusing to me!

It'll take more than EU law to make the UK CAA competent :}Nothing - microlights are not EASA aeroplanes. You may get some credit towards a LAPL, subject to a flight assessment, but that's it.

BillieBob, I don't think I explained myself clearly. I wasn't asking about NPPL(M) conversion to LAPL, but rather NPPL(M) -> NPPL(SSEA) -> LAPL.

If you look at the moment, its possibly to convert from NPPL(M) to NPPL(SSEA) relatively easily. The only next step on from that today (pre-EASA) is PPL, which wont count NPPL(M) training hours, so you have a sort of 2-class system, where you can get to the next step far easier if you did all your training on a light aircraft rather than 3Axis.

However, my understanding is that LAPL is meant to be very similar to NPPL(SSEA). As such, if you hold an NPPL(SSEA), whether via direct qualification, or via the NPPL(M) route, would it matter? All the more so as most of the light sport aircraft intended to match the LAPL qualification come from the 3Axis microlight stable, as I see it.

Does that make my question clearer? Ta. IPZ

Not in the slightest - it is only the qualification that matters, not how you achieved it.

So NPPL(SSEA) to LAPL will work different to NPPL to PPL? That's good news. Thanks. IPZ

Just a small reminder about NPA 2011-16 on Instrument Flying Conditions
 

Dear All,

This post is just to remind you all that you have until 23rd December to comment on the FCL.008 draft using EASA's crt tool.

In the link you see the current documents under discussion. You register (a two minute job), then log in and give your input on FCL.008, for example,

* on automatic conversion of the UK IMC rating into an En-Route Instrument Rating
* on the possibility to keep the UK IMC rating as a national rating in place (as was promised by Mr. Eric Sivel on several occasions)
* on automatic conversion of third party ICAO instrument ratings
* on grandfathering flight privileges
* on glider flight in IMC

Especially regarding the first two points, I think it is very useful that pilots put forward all reasoned arguments to make the case. EASA is obliged to give at the very least a reasoned response.

Good luck and happy writings...

Perhaps most important is to express support for the competence-based modular IR and the enroute IR in the NPA. Without those, some of the other points are likely to prove difficult. Note that:

* automatic conversion of the UK IMC rating into an En-Route Instrument Rating
* the possibility to keep the UK IMC rating as a national rating in place

are not proposals in the NPA.

That is exactly why we have an NPA process. So that proper amendments and additions can be proposed, provided of course they are well reasoned and married to the findings of the impact study or, should the impact study be incomplete or inaccurate, to amended conclusions of that impact study.

It is not a yes saying exercise. It is one of the few opportunities that organisations, flying groups or even individuals have to contribute to proposed regulation. If a quarter of the UK flying community comments to the effect that they want to adjust the NPA so as to include the above two points, it will take a significant amount of departmental thickness to ignore it completely.

Agreed, but be aware of the scope. You might also want to slip in that you'd like a G-V for Christmas. Just like a request to keep the IMC rating in place as a national rating, it's likely to get a 'noted' response.

On the specific point, the explanatory note to the NPA says in para 7

Although the conversion of existing IMC ratings is not within the scope of this task, the
Agency is aware that this issue is closely linked to it. This NPA provides several options
for pilots with prior instrument experience to be credited towards the new ratings.
However, it should be mentioned at this stage that a conversion of existing IMC ratings is
already covered by the draft Commission Regulation laying down technical requirements
and administrative procedures related to civil aviation aircrew pursuant to Regulation
(EC) No 216/2008 of the European Parliament and of the Council. This draft Regulation
clearly defines that Member States should convert existing licences and ratings into Part-
FCL licences and ratings. It is highlighted in this Regulation that Member States should
aim at allowing pilots to, as far as possible, maintain their current scope of activities and
privileges. The Agency already discussed this issue with the CAA UK and industry experts
in order to identify possible options for UK IMC holders. The most favourable solution
seems to be that a Part-FCL licence and an IR will be issued with certain conditions on
the basis of a specific conversion report in order to reflect the current privileges held.
This would allow the existing UK IMC holders to continue to exercise their IMC privileges.

I would have thought that you would want the privileges of this 'conditional IR' to extend to approaches rather than 'automatic conversion ... into an En-Route Instrument Rating'.

From information I gleaned yesterday 'over the water' I understand there are a significant number of comments coming in against the proposed EIR. I suspect from some continental NAAs and ATM organisations, amongst others.

Whatever the arguments about the efficacy of the EIR (well debated in the forums), on balance it should be regarded as a positive step I believe. It is part of a package approach by EASA linked with the new IR.

Therefore as many as possible should submit supportive comments on the EASA CRT to both the IR and the EIR. This is once in a generation chance to make a significant change is this area - and long overdue. It will not come again for many years. So please switch from forum writing to CRT writing (and BTW, I suggest to draft your comments off-line, save them then copy on to the CRT online. Saves a lot of annoyance when the internet or the CRT goes down and you have to start all over again from scratch).

Peter
 

Looks like a typical overpaid over complicated goverment website to put you off leaving a comment. So simple instructions on how to actual place a comment would not go a miss. But do ESASA realy want them. Research shows British airspace is 400% safer than German airspace for VFR pilots because we have the IMC rating, but ESASA does seem to want to reduce safety not increase it, as is their mission statement. Question can they be sued in the European Court of Human Rights for reducing the safety of pilots in British airspace.

Well you could argue an either / or solution. Either you convert the IMC into an Enroute Instrument Rating; Or you convert it into an Enroute Instrument Rating, limited to UK airspace; Or you grandfather the UK IMC privileges.

As noted above, there is a significant safety benefit in doing this, as it avoids people losing currency because not being able to fly legally anymore and then risking their lives skud running.

One should also discuss the economic impact and the need for proportionality in regulation.

To claim that all this is "out of scope", comparing it to wishing a G-V for Christmas sounds a bit off the mark to me. Especially as people on the continent seem to comment against the EIR, grandfathering of UK IMC rights would then be the most sensible solution.

Sure, the EASA drone can write 1000 times "noted" everytime she doesn't like what she's reading, but with the pressure on Kneepkens sufficiently high that he's organizing a survey about himself, I doubt that properly motivated comments would be just ignored at this time. Kneepkens would do so at his peril.

Besides, I couldn't afford a Gulfstream V jet. But some proper, honest, safety enhancing and user friendly regulation improvements would be welcome.

Well, I've just spent a thrilling morning uploading 33 NPA responses from 2 different organisations to the CRT.....:\

There are now over 500 responses logged, so it'll be a pretty busy New Year for the €urocrats!