Booker Stadium Anyone?
 

I'm sure the neighbours who have been complaining about the airfield will love the disturbance from the crowds on match days

Robin
 

You are quite correct about the destubance to tha locals, it is slowly dawning on them how little trouble comes from WAP.

Due to both WW & Wasps using the ground the traffic on the weekends will be a major problem.

Perhaps all the flying clubs can de-camp to Benson when the RAF gets axed in the defence cuts that are being widely reported.

The only up side to the football stadium would be the chairperson of the WAP anti noise group would find her rural cottage placed next to a huge stadium.............. real justice me thinks!

Found amongst the FAQs of the proposed stadiums website...........

I note the word "could"

Benson
 

Benson would be a great site for Booker Gliding Club. Nice long winch run, lots of hangars and better airspace. Ideal for vintage, racing,ridge soaring... roll on defence cuts?
bb

Having already committed £750,000 to a site/feasibility study, Wycombe District Council has now embarked on a public consultaion process on potential options. The rugby club has simply gone public on its preference - but they won't be paying for it (estimates in excess of £100M).

Wycombe air park under threat? what else is new?
 

Wycombe District Council would like to put stadium, parking, and airfield in one place, and a rugby and footie stadium would include "co-location of the Air Park for continued aviation".

I sure would like to see their plans! Meanwhile they just keep hoicking up the rent. After all, only wealthy people fly helicopters etc. etc.

With the looming financial crisis for councils as their budgets are slashed I would Imagine all airfields will be experiencing rises in council taxes and also rents if the council own the land.

I think that this will be enough to drive some businesses under over the next few years.:sad:

From the plans I've seen I'd be concerned that licensed flying could continue as some of the stadium structure seems very close and a potential infringement of OLSs.

However, with planned housing development right up to the boundary I wonder if any developer would be interested a few Flying Homestead type homes?

No, I didn't think so.

Sir George Cayley

From The Other Place:

As said, the only thing that has changed in the last couple of days is that the owner of Wasps and Wanderers has expressed a preference to developing part of Wycombe Air Park into a sports complex etc. The final decision as to which of 19 possible sites is potentially developed is down to Wycombe District Council (the actual land owners) and that is planned for some time in the New Year – then they just need to find the funding.

The parent company of the airfield operator is more than happy to work alongside the developers if Wycombe Air Park were chosen. The realignment of the runway would actually enable a longer runway to exist which would have the added benefit of moving the approach and climb out away from the existing residential areas. This company is in the hotel business and welcomes the idea of a hotel on the airfield which would provide a service to GA using the airfield as well as the sports complex.

At the end of the day, it’s all a long way off and if it actually stops raining we could all go flying!

[ FLYER Forums; Booker - the future ]

:suspect:

Make no mistake, this is a done deal and the stadium will be going onto WAP. The other sites are just a smokescreen to make it seem like the council has done some level of due diligence.

Quite how you'd fit a stadium, "sports village", hotel, runway and hangars on the site, I have no idea. Hayes, Arora and the council have had this one sewn up for a while. All for a 25,000 seater stadium for 5,000 Wycombe fans to sit in. (Maybe a few more from London..)

The initial financial analysis (Leaving Facebook... | Facebook)

shows that likely costs for the development of the proposed stadium are in excess of £100M and that both the football and rugby clubs have been loss making for the past five years.

Be interesting to see how the council will justify committing to such a high risk/low return scheme that appears to benefit only the club owner.

Adams Park isn't all that old (30 years?) as footie stadiums go and it's a nice modern stadium. The old WW stadium was derelict for many years after WW moved (may still be for all I know - haven't been there for years). So why do they really want a new stadium?

To get rid of the aeroplanes, of course. Envy of those who can afford to buy helicopters or twin engine private planes. Noisy and polluting, sort of like fox-hunting, favoured by toffs. As opposed to Russian oligarchs who can afford to buy football teams and get the District Council to splash out on a stadium....hotel.....sports centre, etc. Of course if greenbelt land is freed up to build houses, somebody will make money out of it, especially with M40 access to London.

Fortunately one of the covenants when the land was tranferred to the Air Ministry (now MoD) was that if at any point the airfield ceased to operate as an airfield then the land would revert to agricultural use. .......So, no stadium, houses, spports village, etc.

Wycombe/Booker survival
 

The rot is already settling in (a little premature!) - we've got Booker people looking here (Fairoaks) or at White Waltham, but we're in a bit of a pickle too not knowing what's going on with this place long term.

It's very sad, the tide of property development potential is forever knocking at the door of these sites.

I'm afraid the covenents mentioned are not worth the paper they are written on. A good QC will sort that minor hurdle out. The current Wycombe Air Park site will be flattened and there may be an option to replace some facilities at the other side of the airfield, but the costs will never stack up.

Bad Bear: the glidng club at Booker has been aero tow/slmg only for over 40 years now; winch launching was ditched years ago.

Green belt? Beginning to wonder if that has any meaning these days with all the monstrosities being built in and around the South Bucks area.

I used to have a business that was based around land development and saw how the system worked first hand for years. There is so much money to be made here by so many people and so many 'sweetners' within this sector that I would say this is a done deal.

If I had any kind of business based at the airfield I would be looking for alternative premises. Unfortunately the only people that would support the airfield would be the users and maybe a few locals who realise that a stadium would cause many more problems than the airfield does.

People are obsessed with their house prices and have been brainwashed into thinking that aircraft flying overhead has a negative affect on them, they will vote for the stdium without thinking. The whole process will be dragged out to make it look like some kind of consultation has taken place but this will have been signed and sealed long ago either on a golf course or in a resteraunt somewhere. Anyone that stands in the way may well find themselves out of a job. The people that let it happen will probably be promoted and have a conference suite in the hotel named after them. Its just the way it works im afraid.

I was involved in the running of Chilterns GC at RAF Benson from 1963 until we moved to RAF Abingdon at the beginning of 1971. We had a very close liaison with the club at Booker, particularly when Norman Smith was CFI.

We used to get some Booker chaps down for the weekend to give them some experience in winch launching before they went on their instructor's courses never having done a winch launch before.

I know that Chilterns winch-launched from Booker when the club was formed there in 1958 before moving to Benson around 1960. However, I suspect that the civilian club at Booker has always used aerotows.

There's a number of themes here which resonate! However, the locals are up in arms and are in favour of the airfield. Think even the noise protestors have twigged that the odd Cessna isn't going to be as disruptive as a big rugby match and the associated traffic jams!

Locals are already up-in-arms because agents are devaluing due to the proposed development. As for a QC, it's not as straightforward as that; the moaners always were in a minority and the majority will be heard.

Consultation here:

https://payments.wycombe.gov.uk/surveys ... y/wcs1.htm

facebook page here:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=163959270285614

The problem at Booker is the big increase in noisey heli traffic and the total incompetence of Captian Orchard to enter into sane talks with the locals.

He has the nickname of Captain Ackward, thats the polite one.

The anti noise lobby, note the leader of one of the local anti noise groups is the CEO of Credit Swiss, has found that, if Booker managment keep hiding behind the law then the only way to get ride of the problem is go for redevelopment.

I don't think they want it closed, but if that is the only way to fix the problem then so be it.

If Ackward had listened and been prepared to reduce and change Heli operations and routing then things may have been different.

Denham has heli traffic use the same routing as fixed wing, to reduce noise, with no training at the weekends, it all goes to Booker.

So the managment at Booker have brought it on themselves.
Routing heli traffic at 700ft max over noise sensitive housing is stupid to say the least.

Bye the way someone has already put a bullet through an R22, I think it was a .303, so if you fly out of Booker, it might be best if you have a flack jacket handy, helicopters are easy to prey and 700ft. Just shows how mad the locals are becoming with the noise of them.

I would think from the councils point of view that a large part of it will be economic.

The return in rent for what the value of the asset must be down in their books as cannot be fantastic from a beancounter's point of view. This is why they are willing to entertain ideas for a stadium.

From a finance perspective this is one of the least 'economic' options ever. It involves an expenditure of possibly in excess of £100M+ (data from council's own report), with funding coming from sports grants (not guaranteed), lottery funding (not guaranteed), possible rate increases, selling off of council assets and a still uncertain level of committment from the (loss making) football club and the (loss making) rugby club. All this to build a stadium that the locals don't want, in order to keep London Wasps (who moved to Adams Park in 2002 and who admit that they may want to move somewhere else).

How long is left on the lease? surely to build a stadium someone, either the council or the airfield would have to bring the lease to an end.

the problem for the likes of the ceo of credit suisse and his ilk, besides moving close to an active airfield, is that thanks to his efforts, there would likely be more helicopters not less. With a single runway [grass], gliders gone, aircraft will no doubt be able to join overhead so the anti-noise brigade are going to have not just a stadium and worse traffic but likely more helicopters and more noise.

As the anti airfield campaigners [a minority by the way] at West Malling found out until it was too late, airfields often protect the environment you're in so be careful what yuou wish for.

Lease runs out in 2014.

I think Bovingdon airfield is a pretty relevant cautionary tale; the residents carped constantly and vociferously about the pesky aircraft, so the actual airfield was shut. However, the VOR remains active and an Open Prison was built on the site.

So, they now have a bunch of dangerous crims as neighbours, instead of the pilots, lots of aircraft overhead (because of the BNN beacon) but no one landing and thereby contributing to the local economy.......

I think that the aphorism "be careful what you wish for, as your wish may come true" comes to mind. Given a choice between a multi-use socking great sports stadium and an airfield, I know which I'd choose!

Wind the clock forward and with no Booker, there's no mandatory circuit pattern. White Waltham is just down the road and those villages who previously enjoyed a rigorous "no overfly" policy suddenly have no protection.

I live under one of the semi-official aerobatic "boxes" to the East of Whitchurch bridge. Would you chaps mind sharing the noise and excitement with the good people of South Bucks when Booker closes. ;)


If anyone from WW wants to take me up in their aircraft in the name of good neighbour relations then I'll film the fun from the back seat :ok:

Hawking for another ride, Mr F? ;)

Yes HF and rather shamelessly too ! When my neighbours comment on the noise, I tell them that the pilot must be as low as 2000 feet when they pull up into the climb and they nod sagely while muttering words of complaint.

BTW, I owe you a DVD sir :ok:

Airfield vs. Entertainment complex - who wins?
 

Whatever the cost of capital to build the stadium and peripheral facilities, hotels etc. the long term economic benefits thereafter to High Wycombe are exponentially greater than those gained from a continuation of activities as a minor aerodrome. Once established, the whole complex will be a magnet, just outside of London, for events, conferences, concerts, meetings, product launches, you name it, nothing to do with football or rugby whatsoever. The ground rent and business rates paid today are a pin-prick compared to the sums of money the proposed development will generate for the local authority which of course will ultimately reduce the amount of council tax local have to pay to run the region. The percieved benefit is that huge boost to the local economy and the anticipated reduction in aircraft noise versus a little bit more road traffic on match days and when they might have a big pop concert etc. which, by default, will tend not to be midday, mid-week.

The arguments to keep the airfield soley as an airfield are pretty thin from the persepective of a local tax payer. It's the banks, private financiers and developers who will foot the bill, not the neighbours.

You are going to have to fight very hard and dirty to win this one - and there is no evidence whatsoever that the airport management have started that fight with more than a little whimper. They've paid a peppercorn rent for years and now it's time to wake up.

The pro-airfield arguments on employment and economic benefit are going to be hopeless and so you need to find more emotional, legal and political strings to your bow to fight the good cause for aviation.

One might suspect that the airport mansgement is in fact fighting in favour of the development as the current leaseholder (AAA Ltd) is owned by Arora, a hotel development and operation business.

From The Residents
 

Hi,
I am a resident living virtually on the airfield. type the location into Google maps and see how close! I am also a fixed wing PPL flying out of the Airfield.

We don't care about the planes and stuff - its residents of Lane End, Frieth and Booker Common that have had the issues. we don't like the helicopter noise but that is mainly to incompetent pilots not respecting flight procedures - (the number of arguments with pilots about the arrogance of claiming Rule5.)

The proposal is to kill flying and build houses, stadium, 3500 car-park, sports centre. its ridiculous! The roads to the airfield are B roads with high accident numbers so its not just the project but everything that goes with it.

My requests to the council under the Freedom of Information Act have been ignored BUT, as residents, and in the airfield covenants there are clauses that stop development that causes nuisance or interference with the natural habitat. then there is this clause about returning to agricultural land.

on another note - a reorientation of the airfield runway will be great. It will move the helicopters to a more remote area and the silly weaving on take off to avoid the odd houses that complain would be a thing of the past.

there is a public protest on Mon 13th at 5.30pm at the Council offices.

WDC is required under the FoI Act to respond within 20 working days. If you've been ignored then contact the Information Commissioner to lodge a complaint. The Council has been complaining about the number of FoI requests they've received regarding the stadium. They don't seem to have twigged that if they put the information into the public domain in the first place then there wouldn't be so many requests for it to be disclosed!

The WDC Cabinet will be making an initial decision on how to proceed at their January meeting and there's lots of questions being asked as part of the public session at the Full Council meeting this evening.....at which there is also a protest organised by local ratepayers, footbal fans, parish councils, gliding club, and a whole host of outher groups who'll be adversely affected.

Reading the various documents (Council reports, consultants analysis, internal emails released by other FoI requests, etc) suggests that there's a number of options being investigated by the Council, ranging from expansion of the airfield to incorporate instrument training facilities and Light Jets right through to (at the opposite end of the spectrum) complete closure. One that lookls particularly interesting is to operate the airfield on non-match days (i.e. weekdays) only and to use the runway as a car park at weekends. A grass runway being used as a car park doesn't sound like a very nice option when the ground is soft!

Booker
 

This development is going to happen because all the key protagonists get what they want. Hayes (Wasps) gets his stadium. Arora (owner of Booker) gets his hotel. AAA (Air Park managers) get a new runway extended and capable of taking bizjets. Council gets enough development land to meet its quota for new homes for years ahead. Simple really.

Sadness is that AAA are going to kick out gliding to let that happen (and also to free up plenty of movements so they can expand heli and bizjet ops).

Local residents and council taxpayers don't get a say though!

Site development is all about the money, and they're all going to roll in it. Spare a thought for Booker Gliding Club though.

"Sadness is that AAA are going to kick out gliding to let that happen (and also to free up plenty of movements so they can expand heli and bizjet ops)."

Are you saying that movements are presently retricted by gliding operations?

I'm not sure that's the case at all - fixed wing powered operate off the hard/grass runways, helicopters operate north (or est if the wind is a northerly) of the runways, and the gliders from the grass to the south. To the best of my knowledge there is no movements restriction by number or in reality by the different types of machinery.

Arora doesn't own Booker, it owns AAA which holds the lease of the airfield (which expires in two years). The airfield is actually owned by Wycombe District Council.

Concern is that WDC is going to redevelop the airfield into a massive housing estate/retail park under the guise of "enabling development" to fund a community sports stadium...which won't be for the community (those in the community who have been asked have said they don't want one), isn't about participative sport (but is about spectator activity that can be charged for) and won't be available for public use when London Wasps has a match on.

The current lease for WAP actually expires in 2014 (not two years). Hopefully it will all be sorted by then and we can get on with our jobs and playtime in peace....!

You're right.....maths wasn't my strong point! Yes, there's a risk that it will be all "sorted out" as an option being considered by WDC will see WAP revert to an unlicenced grass strip, operating weekdays only (as runway will be used as car park at weekends).