PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Private Flying (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying-63/)
-   -   Volcanic ash cloud and Private / VFR flying (merged) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/412144-volcanic-ash-cloud-private-vfr-flying-merged.html)

IO540 17th Apr 2010 08:01

I flew s coast to yorkshire yesterday and back and my air filter looks exactly the same now as before - absolutely spotless. Unlimited vis at 5000-6000ft, most of the time.

Maybe today is different, and maybe there is more high up.

But I cannot see the physics supporting dangerous (abrasive) concentrations of anything and 30nm+ horizontal vis.

What is a soap sample?

aviate1138 17th Apr 2010 08:14

Surely the Met Office [well known for its super accurate forecasting - not] has been doing all the talking and walking on this one? Covering one's arse would be putting it mildly IMHO.

So thin is the Icelandic dust down South [Hog's Back] we haven't even had any volcanic sunsets. :(

I see Genghis the Engineer has been up for a looksee. Heard him talking on BBC radio last eve.

mad_jock 17th Apr 2010 08:15

A soap sample is a bottle of oil pulled from the engine after you have given it a run. Its then sent off to the lab where they do things to it. And send you a report on your engine. The report is scary accruate. They can tell you if you rings are leaking what components are shedding metal, if a bit of your engine is overheating locally etc etc.

And neither did the finish airforce and they have just had to change 4 engines. It will be interesting to see what they find when they boroscope the test aircrafts engines. I suspect for pistons you won't see anything in most cases until the next time you pull the cylinder head or something wears out way before its meant to.

F.A.TAlbert 17th Apr 2010 09:06

IO540

I flew s coast to yorkshire yesterday and back and my air filter looks exactly the same now as before - absolutely spotless. Unlimited vis at 5000-6000ft, most of the time.
Maybe today is different, and maybe there is more high up.
But I cannot see the physics supporting dangerous (abrasive) concentrations of anything and 30nm+ horizontal vis.

Towards the end of the day and overnight, suspended particulate matter can descend especially if there is little or no wind. I am not far from Bagby and my car is again covered the same as my neighbors. So I think that is anyone believes that a good sunny day with clear skies means its ok then they are clearly wrong. It's the stuff you cannot see that will cost you money in the long run.

IO540 17th Apr 2010 09:11

I do oil analysis but I am not due for another 30hrs or so.

The result will be interesting - one way or another.

G-BHZO 17th Apr 2010 09:23

VFR on Sunday?
 
Looking like being a decent afternoon tomorrow weather-wise (in Scotland, at least). I had a long-standing plan to head over to Islay for a spot of lunch, but HIAL have suspended out of hours operations for GA until Monday. :ugh:

Cumbernauld and Oban report normal operations, and it seems GA is still flying at Prestwick. Glasgow ATC also saying that VFR entry to the Glasgow zone is ok, in fact more likely to get a direct routing through the zone due to the lack of commercial traffic arriving and departing.

It sounds as if Oban is possible tomorrow, at least in terms of airspace and airports, although the plan may change depending on how the low level ash situation develops over the next 24 hours.

Fisbangwallop... what is the GA picture looking like so far today?

timtucker 17th Apr 2010 09:48

Ash Clouds Over Amsterdam
 
I flew here on Thursday in a BAe 146 and... I'm still here now. The trains are booked solid for days ahead, the ferries are... booked for days ahead. My mate offered to come and get me in his Cherokee 6 but they've closed the airspace here to low-level VFR traffic as well as the high-level IFR stuff and I'm sitting in my hotel room wondering why???

Pace 17th Apr 2010 09:53

It is worrying that they have closed the airspace to low level VFR traffic.
Maybe this has something to do with security issues?

There is no safety issues with low level VFR traffic.

Pace

BackPacker 17th Apr 2010 10:02

The KNVvL has already protested against closing the airspace for low-level VFR traffic. There is no good explanation for this, other than maybe some ass-covering.

Tim, the tulip fields in the "Bollenstreek" are in full bloom now. While you're stuck in Amsterdam, make the best of it. Either book a tour that departs from Amsterdam, or take the train to Leiden and rent a bicycle there. It's a beautiful day today and tomorrow with light winds so make the best of it!

robert mailer 17th Apr 2010 10:34

few over london city and gatwick friday 4pm, great fun and a good view 747s on the ground:):D

'India-Mike 17th Apr 2010 10:59

Despite being a bit of a cynic about this stuff, I somewhat reluctantly have to agree with mad_jock. Listen to Genghis on the radio or tv (BBC website too) or have a look at the Finnish Air Force F18 engines on Flight's website. Coupled with that I woke up this morning to both my cars covered in very fine (but gritty) dust. I leave it to the aeroplane owners at my club(s) to make the decision, but I'm now 70-30 not to fly. At Pik the cars don't seem to have the dust that we have 30mi NNE in Glasgow but that might just mean it hasn't quite made it to ground level. With Gipsy overhauls at about £25k I'd rather discretion be the better part of valour:)

IO540 17th Apr 2010 11:15

All fair points, but I think some perspective is in order. There is dust everywhere all the time, especially in the summer on nice days.

Anybody who does oil analysis will see a certain amount of silicon in the data. This is ingested soil. It is generally accepted that this plays a part in the rate of piston engine wear, but this needs to be seen against an assumed engine life of 2000hrs (which for most private owners is more than 20 years) during which time the engine has ingested a huge amount of soil.

That's why one has an air filter, and the filter should fit correctly.

There is also a tendency among some high altitude GA pilots to fly with the alternate air open all the time (when at altitude). I never do this - not least because it allows ice to form on the front of the air filter and then when you close the alternate air, the engine stops :)

timtucker 17th Apr 2010 11:39

Thanks, but I wish I could rent a boat instead..

By implication are we to think that any engine is at risk from dust all the way down to ground level. Are people still driving their cars, using their motor mowers to do the lawn while they wait for the next flight?

I agree that its a bit of @rse-covering by the various air traffic services.

Katamarino 17th Apr 2010 12:12

Pure arse-covering. Backpacker, I'd be interested to hear if there is any reaction from the authorities to the protest; how do they explain closing the airspace to gliders, for example!?

Is there a way to find out who has issued a certain NOTAM? They do not seem to include contact details when looked at through the Aviation Weather >> Europe > metar taf sigmet notam winds aloft significant weather information site.

Edit: I had a look at the KNVvL site, and the Dutch minister claims that the ban on all flying is due to "possible blockage of the pitot tube". I'm forced to wonder what planet these people live on.

robin 17th Apr 2010 12:23

It is an interesting topic.

At the moment the restriction on flying in the UK is achieved by NATS. The CAA hasn't banned VFR flying unlike Holland, France etc.

But once EASA takes full competence (??) would it be EASA that would make these decisions for the EU as a whole?

DebbieG 17th Apr 2010 12:41

Fly into Bristol Airport this weekend
 
This could be a once in a lifetime offer.

As Bristol Airport is twiddling it’s thumbs this weekend, any type of aircraft can land for £25 plus VAT from 0800 to 1800 today and tomorrow. There’s also a free drink at the Bristol and Wessex.

So far we’ve had several visiting microlights and a hot air balloon did a touch and go!

Katamarino 17th Apr 2010 13:05

KNVvL just announced that VFR flight has been re-allowed!!

Edit: aaaaand the NOTAM is out and applies only to non-motorised. Bloody hell...

timtucker 17th Apr 2010 13:35

AAAAaaargh my eyes, my eyes. I can't see!!!

Actually its all blue skies and tulips out here in Holland but I can't fly(banned) sail(booked up) or drive(no hire cars.) There are 4000 pasenegers on camp beds at the airport. My Cherokee 6 friend can't even get to France now. My only way out is to get a ferry from Dunkirk to Dover tomorrow. How fitting.

Might give those flowers a visit - thanks for the good idea. Hopefully there'll be a pub.

BackPacker 17th Apr 2010 13:58

Tim, you have a PM.

jxc 17th Apr 2010 14:52

I heard Andrewsfield has stopped operations as well

fisbangwollop 17th Apr 2010 15:00

GBHZO....[QUOTE]Fisbangwallop... what is the GA picture looking like so far today?[/QUOTE

Just done a morning shift, not too busy after yesterdays full on day, that said the weather not as good here in Scotland as yessterday....looking at the UK radar picture the south of England once again stuffed full of 7000 sqk's....:cool::cool::cool: Also nice to see 2 BA 747's in Prestwick this morning, New york-London via Prestwick and 7 hour coach journey :eek::eek:

Shunter 17th Apr 2010 15:02

Been up this afternoon. Lots of GA traffic out and about in Yorks/Lincs.

Katamarino 17th Apr 2010 15:07

Depressing to see so many other countries flying GA as normal when we're stuck on the ground thanks to incompetent bureaucrats :(

G-BHZO 17th Apr 2010 15:09

Thanks FIS.... hope to speak to you on the way to Oban tomorrow.

fisbangwollop 17th Apr 2010 16:51

ZO.....Will be there awaiting your call in the morning then entertaining some Leading Edge folk in the afternoon......they picked a good day to visit...not!!!!!:cool::cool::cool:

Sam Rutherford 17th Apr 2010 16:52

Just flown a beautiful Meribel-La Cote (between Lausanne and Geneva).

Hoping to head for Belgium tomorrow - we'll see!

Sam.

GearDownFlaps 17th Apr 2010 17:30

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._2614872_n.jpg
Well Im loving the view , ash is quite nice:ok:

Tupperware Pilot 17th Apr 2010 18:02

Been a great day. The controllers at both Stansted and Luton very helpful and let us fly over the airfields and do a few orbits to take some photos!
Free Airspace.. - a set on Flickr

Stansted was very busy.......! Lots of GA wanting to fly over the airfield! I'm sure we heard one guy ask for a low flyby at Luton and was given the OK!

Photos: Airbus A320-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Now updated to include photos of Birmingham.
Photos: Boeing 757-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

wrecker 17th Apr 2010 18:26

SVFR clearances
 
I was wondering why during the current grounding of IFR flights, Gatwick are happy to offer SVFR clearances through their Class A airspace and Heathrow are'nt. Perpaps we should have a "temporary Reclassification of the London Tma to Class G! Afert all Nats is very happy to upgrade Class G to Class A for " purple" events!

Roadrunner Once 17th Apr 2010 18:33

Gatwick has a class D zone, not class A, hence VFR is allowed.

As for CAS-T (not 'Purple' these days) for royal flights, I think (but stand to be corrected) that that is a matter for the MoD and the CAA, not NATS.

mad_jock 17th Apr 2010 19:34

Apparently there have been reports of free fall meat bombs saying that they have been having stinging lips/exposed skin while freefalling in these 30k plus conditions.

drambuster 17th Apr 2010 20:37

No VFR in France?
 

Roofy: See the French have closed all their airspace and their airfields as a result of , you guessed it, Volcanic Ash!!!
No GA in France, no open airfields!
Does anyone know if this is definitely the case? Roofy, can you let me know where you picked up this information?

Thanks
Drambuster

x933 17th Apr 2010 20:39

I've been at a busy aero club in north london that has a bush in it's name, the last aircraft out today got a fly through at Luton not above 500ft (not me, but not heard in a bar either). Some fun to be had if so inclined :ok:

The Dead Side 17th Apr 2010 21:07

Thanks chaps at GW, great service provided today :-D

roofy 17th Apr 2010 21:18

French VFR
 
Drambuster

Was closed as per the Notams for ALL flying including VFR. All French fields north of 48 north were ordered to close at around 1200 hrs Friday. Good news is now all open for VFR, normal over reaction. French are (to justify earlier decision) giving warning to exercise care and remind you the risk to your motor is yours!
Noted lot of activity on the various airfield web cams today no sign of ash but did see one guy smoking outside the terminal at LFAT :-)

Katamarino 17th Apr 2010 22:53

Holland is STILL shut down to everything without an engine; are we now the only country with a blanket ban on GA?

AEST 17th Apr 2010 23:59


Holland is STILL shut down to everything without an engine; are we now the only country with a blanket ban on GA?
I hear you can take a glider up if you install a mode S transpoder :O

corsair 18th Apr 2010 00:20

I flew in an out of the ash layer several times today. It's only visible when you are level with it. But when you're in it you can smell it. So unless you can smell it's likely you're not in it. Also it had zero impact on the aircraft despite several climbs and descent through the layer which was quite thin where I was.

So for light aircraft no need to panic. Unless you plan to fly for an extended period in the ash layer. The stink alone will drive you out of it anyway. On the other hand I would tend to avoid any ash layer you could see from above or below. That might be nasty.

It flies 18th Apr 2010 05:26

Dutch airspace still closed until at least 14:00 on sunday.

IO540 18th Apr 2010 07:54

I think this whole situation is being handled in an incredibly inept manner.

Some airlines are going to go bust pretty soon. Cargo is rotting in warehouses... Stranded passengers are going to make huge claims on their insurances.

Nobody seems to be collecting data on where the stuff is and what (if anything) it does to engines. The Met Office quite obviously hasn't got a clue. The CAAs are totally lawyer-bound. And there isn't anybody else.

Somebody is going to have to get a lot more realistic pretty soon... but that's not the "European way" of doing things.

Eventually, airlines will collect some data and threaten legal action against the regulators. Then things will change fast.


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:02.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.