An Election Reminder
 

Just a reminder that when I was talking to Chris Grayling, Home Secretary in waiting, a few months ago, he told me that one of the first things he will do when the Tories get in will be to ban aviation (and, IIRC, boating) from any site without proper security.

The boating bit could be very interesting - quite how he would manage to do that is beyond me.

Never the less the detail may be in the definition of "proper security" whatever that means.

But still probably not good enough grounds to vote the thieving one eyed jock and and his cronies back into power......

Bose - you been watching too much Clarkson. :)

No, I have been watching my net worth devastated by the incompetence and greed of this government. A government that encourages people to breed and consume so that they can keep on spending leaving the rest of us to pick up the tab for the scourge of humanity who are happy to do nothing but breed and live off the rest of us.

A government that wants us all to be equal in typical socialist style, all living in tacky shoe boxes paying half or more of everything we earn to fund the dross who don't. An equal society that stifles adventure and entrepreneurism.

Now where is my soapbox.......

And didn't a politician once say "our skies are not for sale"?

The security bit is interesting and I wonder what his proposal is meant to achieve? There is an airfield near me where very expensive aircraft are parked right next to a main A road. What might his solution be - 50ft high brick wall all round?

This kind of thing has been doing the rounds elsewhere around the world.

IIRC, in Australia they had to put a motorbike-style chain lock around the prop. That sort of thing is not a big deal; in fact personally I am a lot more security-conscious than that regarding my own plane.

The bottom line however is that stealing a car is a lot easier and there are no travel controls on cars :)

The Election
 

Can we not keep politics out of this site. It's bad enough in the Media and I feel that there will be a lot of lies bandied around to promote anger.:mad:

Think I will be taking a very good look at the parties' policies with regards to aviation, especially with regards to Green fascism and how it will affect us, fuel prices, help for the industry, what they will be prepared to do to sort out the right old arse-up that is being made of EASA, etc. :hmm:

Not that many care of course. Labour are too interested in stealing yet more tax to chuck at scroungers who can't be arsed working. The Tories are too interested in slashing stuff to the bone to give rich city wnakers tax cuts. The Lib Dems are just being the irrelevant Lib Dems. The rest consists of various unlikeable inbred radges e.g. EcoNazis, fascists, sheep-shagging Nationalists, Socialists, breakaway EuroSceptic Tories, The Old Fart Party (or "Jury Team" or whatever the heck it was called) etc.

Smithy

IMHO this kind of discussion is perfectly OK here.

The problem is that one cannot do single-issue voting. It achieves absolutely nothing.

All one can do is pick up on stupid promises like this one and make sure enough people have their attention drawn to it, and then the right kind of lobbying can take place to make sure the really stupid things don't happen.

As far as I am concerned it is a purely aviation matter, not a matter of political debate.

I am merely reporting what Chris Grayling told me he is going to do when he is Home Secretary. There are plenty of wider debates to be had (though actually there doesn't seem to be anything to choose between any of them) but this is very specifically about our flying freedom.

As an aside, Bose, I thought that your wealth was destroyed by the Icelandic government rather than our own?

I doubt Grayling will be home secretary anyway, in the event of a Tory victory. Given his comments about gay couples and B&Bs, he's clearly an electoral liability (as well as a fool).

labour gov - anti aviation
 

The famous 'Crisis, what crisis?' Labour PM Callagham, banned general aviation during the 70's fuel crisis. The gliding club that I was a member of then had a seasons supply of diesel - but we couldn't use that to power the winch and launch gliders.

Labour is the party of envy, not aspiration. I used to drive an old banger and live on rice and eggs during the week to pay for flying at the weekends - but all they saw was 'a rich mans sport'

I hope you are right but your logic is flawed. He is Shadow Home Secretary now. Now is election time. Now is the time that he is a liability. After the election, if and when he is appointed Home Secretary, it will be 5 years to the next one so his Christian Right homophobia won't count for much, so he won't be an election liability then; (every other kind of liability I grant you, but not an electoral one.)

I rarely agree with Bose x - but on THIS occasion, he's spot on.

When I first saw this on Flyer (topic now locked) I thought it was a belated April joke. Alas, it seems I have been too naïve - again! :ugh:

Bose
 

Didn't read the rest,you've got it in one.

No smiley for what the hell do we do to get it right.

One of my best pals has taken up deer stalking,with a powerful rifle.

Maybe we should all get one of those?

Just playing devil's advocate... but have one of the "others" clearly set out in their manifesto etc. that they will do otherwise!!? I understand the frustration, owning my own businesses but does anyone seriously think that taking their frustration out by "voting against" will change anything?

No matter who you vote for, The Government always gets in.
Any person who seeks public office should be banned from it.

I don't care if Brown eats his young alive, I'll not vote for the Tories if they want to take a swipe at GA. Ban aviation from any site without proper security indeed. Can we ban politicians from any site without proper security, do you think? To keep them in, that is.

I've long since given up thinking about who to vote for. I'm trying to figure out who do I most want not to be in power. I don't think I've ever felt so negative about all the parties.

It's better to vote in order to express who you DON'T want (re)elected than not vote at all.
Politics should be discussed much more freely in this country, perhaps then the turn-out might be improved and the stigma removed.
It's a long time since I was at school but it certainly wasn't on the curriculum then, and I'd be surprised to find out that it is now.
There are too many ignorant people who are prepared to criticise who don't excercise their right to vote! These people are hypocrites.
Rant over, in fact I've gone back to bed so I can get out of the other side of it!

I agree with FREDAcheck's sentiments. Too many people have got caught up in the Murdoch media "Vote Out Labour" frenzy which is too rectionary and has little meaning or direction.

Yes, Labour are bad. Unequivical. But who exactly is better?

I find it somewhat incredible that there are so many stupid people who somehow think that by voting Tory in the election all of our problems will be solved. We have been here so many times before it is sickening. Same old crap, different party.

Cam is a snake oil salesman. He talks the talk alright and says what people want him to hear but he has no substance or truth. Clegg was merely cloned in the same vat as Cam. They look, act and talk exactly the same. Watch them both on telly - no difference whatsoever. Brown seems to be utterly clueless.

No Heathrow 3rd runway. No more airport expansion. More "green" taxes on aviation. Restrictions on aviation for "green" reasons. A ban on aviation from any site without "security". All things that the Tories have been very vocal about recently.

Any pilot, whether student, weekend puddle-jumper or professional, who votes Tory in the election, needs their bloody head seriously looked at.

Smithy

non secure aviation sites
 

Who was is who said in court "he would say that would'nt he?".

Just like all people in politics Mr Grayling is trying to get the mass votes of people who know even less about aviation than he does.

Trying to ban avation from what he calls "non secure" sites would instantly stop the helicopter charter business, Stop at least one large airliner maintenance company (with the knock on effects on the charter airlines and so peoples holidays), shut down gliding overnight and result in the closing of a number of smaller aviation companys. He simlpy could not risk that political storm on day one of a new job, it would make him look stupid.

Once Mr Grayling gets into power he will soon see that a light aircraft might be able to get a small bomb (may be 400KG max ) on to a target the plot would be very difficalt to do due to the small and close knit world of General Aviation.

On the other hand you are likely to be able to drive a large lorry with a bomb 40,000KG right next to the target without raising much in the way of suspision due to the large nature of the road transport industry.


I have no problem with approprate security, for a light aircraft on a farm strip that security is likely to be a big padlock on the hangar door and the aircraft keys not left in the hangar. The security of the aircraft somewhat relies on the skill needed to get the aircraft airborne and the lack of impact that the aircraft would have on a target................ but the padlocks still wont stop the "caravan dwellers" stealing the fuel.

stoking terrorism
 

If this gov hadn't engaged in an illegal invasion of Iraq, a war for who knows what in Afghanistan and a foreign policy that seems to be more about making money than ethics, then the threat of terrorism would be far less.

Flying is seen as an aspirational rich mans sport - so it's a natural target for Labour.

Smithy,

Much as I like my flying, there's a bigger issue at stake. Do you seriously want that fool Brown in charge for another five years, given the damage him and his cronies have done to the country? We're in the mire, and it's their fault. They don't know what they're doing, they're liars, cheats and scoundrels. If they get five more years, being able to fly is, I fear, the least of my worries. I think the continuing ability to pay my mortage will have a slightly higher priority.

Frankly, anyone who does not vote for anyone but Labour needs their head seriously examined.

Quite. So should we vote for Blair Lite, an inept shadow chancellor, and the Bullingdon Buffoons?

Frankly, anyone who does not vote for anyone but Conservative needs their head seriously examined.

Looks like a bit of viral campaigning by Nu Labour :yuk: is at work here. Think after you read and before you fall into the trap.

If the Tories had been in government over the past few years, the economic situation we're in now would be far far worse. The only party who called the banking collapse before it happened was the Lib Dems; David Cameron wanted there to be less regulation on banks to let them do as they please!

Labour are piss poor - but the Tories are far far worse. Anyone who earns less than 100k will be worse off under the Tories than under Labour.

Oh, btw - do we actually have any proof for what Mr. Grayling said ? To me this whole thread smacks of covert electioneering :=

I'd second that - can someone provide a link to what Grayling said? I've googled it and can find nothing.

I expect that Timothy bloke just made it up for a laugh. He's a card, that Timothy, he is. :):):)

Don't call me a liar or an electioneer.

He said it to me, personally. I was amazed that he made a point of taking me to one side and telling me, as if he wanted me to leak it (and leak it I did to AOPA, LAA and others.)

He knew that I was involved in the politics of aviation, which had extended to my taking him and his family flying in my Aztec. That flight is recorded in his register of interests (search in page for "31 January 2004" or "Timothy Nathan").

Make of his comments what you will, but I am telling the absolute truth.

Please do not question my integrity.

Timothy, people seem to throw smileys in to any post to mean "you can't criticise my post, it's got smileys in it", but lest there be uncertainty: I was not doubting your original post, mine was meant as am ironic comment on those that clearly were doubting you.

Someone suggested that there might be electioneering at work here. I would certainly hope there is not! Certainly not from me.

Hamish 123 - agree with you, the fact is I do not know who I want in charge anymore. Again I have to ask who is better than what we already have (which is bad enough)? Is anyone really daft enough to think that some Blair clone is going to wave a magic wand and make everything better, because somehow things cannot possibly get any worse?

I tell you what I worry about. I worry that the NHS and the armed forces will be cut to ribbons in order to give a select few a tax cut of a mere couple of percent, which the Daily Mail will laud as some sort of divine intervention. I worry about me losing my job, income, career and all the things I enjoy due to the defence industry getting ruined all because some Etonian sod hammered the defence budget to stop National Insurance rising by a huge, gigantic, unaffordable economy-destroying (sic, according to some) 1%. I worry about my main hobby (which I hope to turn into a career, in time) being obliterated for the sake of some Green scam and make-believe security. I could go on and on but I can't really be bothered and I will merely make myself look like some bitter and twisted young man with a chip on his shoulder, which unlike some I'm not.

We all have problems, and there are are solutions, but sometimes the solutions take time to take effect. The problem is too many people are far too reactionary and would with out thinking cut their nose off in order to spite their face, which is what I believe is going on here.

There are still enough of us around who remember (and suffered) the damage done last time around. Double-figure interest rates etc. Some damage is indeed still being done by problems that were either papered over, carried on with or just plain ignored.

Being from a humble, ordinary background, with a very modest income, I am very, very greatful and thankful that I have a gift as special as flying. That said I will not give that up easily. Hence why on May 6th I shall not be marking my cross next to the candidate with the silly blue tree symbol next to their name. In fact I don't have a clue who will get the vote at the moment, but I will be voting. And it won't be for a party that wants to put the knife into aviation.

Smithy

Captain Smithy needs to think a bit wider. As wise heads have pointed out it is unlikley that Graylings bright idea will have much serious impact, it merely reflects a European Directive and proportionate and practicable security is the key phrase. That directive is in force and being reviewed by a number of airports.

Please don't forget that we're in a mess because Gordo stole our pension funds and squandered money saving £6 billion in the bloated public sector should be a breeze without any impact on important things like health, education and defence. To give you an idea of his brilliance in 2000 when he was still enjoying the Tory legacy, we had a £16bn positive in flow to the treasury and economic growth around 3.5%, by 2007 that had become a public borrowing requirement of £33bn a year and a growth rate of 2.3% which is why when we hit the banking crisis and the recession (despite the fact that Gordo pointed out he'd abolished boom and bust) we were already in the poo.

Gordo's ignorance is exceeded only by arrogance.

That said I'm as nervous about career politicians of any hue as anybody else, but I shall at least try to give the Tories a shot it. If I thought they could form a government I'd give the Lib Dems a go and for me a Tory lib dem coalition would have a lot of merit.

Labour just lacks all credibility now and must go.

Frankly, I really don't know who to vote for, and get mightily suspicious of anyone telling me it's obviously one or the other main party.

Many - perhaps most - politicians go into politics with some high ideals, but sooner or later lose their principles or their marbles. The latter happened to Margaret Thatcher, both to Tony Blair. After one term in power, maintaining power becomes their guiding principle, and they become more and more authoritarian. They become convinced of their own infallibility, and where once they might have listened to people, soon they merely cherry-pick opinions that support their own ideas (if they take note of any opinion but their own).

A good proportion of politicians become dominated with feathering their nests. It’s human nature, unfortunately. I used to think that politics attracted the best of humanity. Perhaps it does. But it’s even more attractive to the worst of humanity, and it brings out the worst in all of them. They become disillusioned with their principles, we become disillusioned with them.
Well, Grayling's comments to Timothy were a year ago. If a week is a long time in politics, a year is beyond living memory to a politician. But any of them will cheefully pi$$ on any convenient minority if it keeps the barking dogs of the Daily Mail at bay. Once the idea's in his mind, he'll trot it out if it will catch a neat headline. However we might be safe so long as the idea is also linked to boats, as there are far too many voluble yachties to worry about.

No Johnm, the reason we hit the banking crisis and the recession was because 1) too many greedy banks were too willing to lend non-existant money to too many people who had no ability to pay it back, and 2) too many selfish people who couldn't pay any of it back, grabbed the credit while it was going anyway.

Now it seems that the same people who effectively caused the crisis to start with are the ones shouting so loudly about how the Government has "failed" and it is "all their fault"... probably also the same people who for years screamed about demanding competely unrestricted free-market Capitalism because that's what they wanted. :hmm:

The Govt. was probably happy to stand by and watch it carry on because 1) it kept the relentlessly moaning electorate happy and 2) it meant that they could also borrow whatever they liked to piddle up against the wall on whatever they wanted to.

Of course when all went breasts up the people who started moaning about why it should never have happened in the first place were also the first to moan when the Govt. bailed out the banks in order to stop our finances collapsing and Britain effectively entering anarchy. Meanwhile our Tory friends who some are turning to as saviours sat about moaning and offered no solutions at all to the predicament, yet then accused the Govt. of "dithering" :rolleyes:

With attitudes like this, no wonder the country is in the mess it is in...

Labour lacks any credibility, but nobody else has any either. Again the very people who play the "Labour Must Go" broken record never seem to offer any solutions of who to vote for instead...

Smithy

Grayling's comments
 

The great rock that all great political dogma fails is implimentation, It's hard for example to impliment the hard right BNP policy as a council member when you are the head of the public convinience commity.

Grayling will find the same problems if he trys this one on with G.A. When his paymasters find that they can't land on their country a estates and the helicopter can't take them to the races Mr Grayling will get it in the neck.

Oh! and how will David C run his next election without rushing around the UK in a helicopter?

I would like to know what the real agenda is with Mr Grayling, has he got a farm strip next door that we wants rid of?

(1) I strongly suspect that whoever is the next home secretary (and yes, My Grayling does look the strongest candidate right now), they'll have years of more important issues to worry about than us.

(2) My airfield has proper security. It comprises of locks on both the gate and hangar - with keys or combinations only held by club members. Customs drop in a couple of times per year, and we all have their phone number. We also sit close to a LARS provider (which is between us and the coast), so any movements will get logged on some hard drive somewhere. Any problem with that? I think that's perfectly proper.

G