Lazer pen cretins arrested in Teesside
 

Justice at last! Result! I hope they lash them for what they did. A couple of years ago some idiots were using lazer pens on passenger jets flying in to EGNV. Lock them up and throw away the key I say and make an example of them.

Link here: Gazette Live - News - Local News - Two teens arrested under Air Navigation Order

Great that should put the breaks on the idiots that shine these lasers at aircraft

I don't agree that a custodial sentence would be a just punishment for the crime.

Whereas they have recklessly endangered lives, was it through teenage tomfoolery or a deliberate attempt to cause a crash? Furthermore I'm not sure that a spell 'inside' would serve as an example, either. Perhaps a lengthy period of community service would more efficiently educate the boys of the error of their ways, and help to keep the local area clean.

Lash 'em?...............put the "breaks" on 'em?
If we did that then surely we should hang anyone who has the temerity to steal cars or indeed commit an assault in the street.
In aviation we are always complaining about NIMBY'ISM and the general public not seeing "our" side of things and as soon as a couple of scroats commit a crime against us, we jump onto the "Hang 'em High" bandwagon. Shame on you.
I can't and won't defend the little gits,but to lash 'em? Get real please.
:ugh:

I'm a teenager myself, and regardless of my interest in aviation, I would need to have some disorder not to realise that l@(?)sering a pilot of an aircraft full of people is a bad idea. Idiots like that should be punished to the full extent of whatever laws and morals we have left.:mad:

The punishment should fit the crime, and the crime here is endangering HUNDREDS of lives.

Well, hang is probably too strong a word, but then again, stealing a car isn't comparable to endangering hundreds of lives. I still think car thieves should be punished. There is always a choice. :=

Prison is possibly not the best plan, though richly deserved, as it may criminalise "mere" thugs. "Community service" is a wet cop out that will have them laughing their socks off throughout. What is really needed in such cases of wanton oikishness is a dose of their own medicine; a bloody good beating, and I mean bloody good, and a months hard labour, proper back-breaking hard labour, in public, in identifiable orange boiler suits or similar to make a public example and spectacle of them. That would not only act as a thoroughly effective deterrent, but also show the public that scrotes like this are being properly dealt with, instead of being pretty much let off as we do now.

Lashing & hanging?! What the hell am I reading here, The Daily Mail? :confused:

I used to go to the pub with a laser pen when I was in my 20's. It was great fun shining across a packed pub onto a ladies...ah hem...assets :O. Used to a good way to meet new people ;)

So anyway, I reckon it could be tomfoolery and perhaps the best course of action is to educate these people as to why it is so dangerous, rather than sling them inside.

The only time I had a laser shone at me was over South Central LA....I was more worried about what it was attached to !

Call me a wishy-washy-pinko-liberal-hand-wringing-leftie-tree-hugger, but personally I'm of the opinion the only way to deal with people like this is keel-hauling.

I'm encouraged that the incoming administration are in favour of prison-ships, which make for a convenient keel-hauling platform as well as having purpose-built accomodation for the scrotes before and after the jaunt round the barnacles.

Please do not take my comment literally, that being said this country is too soft. Some people on this forum just love to jump on the bones of anyone posting and give a cantankerous reply. For instance:

ak7274 - have you suddenly become a school teacher? This isn't a spelling test. As for stealng a car you cannot compare that to the potential loss of hundred of lives. This is not a one off problem - this has been going on for a while and needs to be stopped. ak7274 you need to buck up!!

I'm sure those who call the act "Tomfoolery" and not deserved of a custodial sentence wouldn't be saying that if a 737 was brought down killing all on board. As for community service - it doesn't work which has already been proved. There is a reason why the ANO is upping their game - because is can cost many lives and is an ongoing problem.

CraigJL has a very good point!

The last prison ship based at Portland was sold to Nigeria as an accomodation barge for use in the Oil Industry. As I work in the OI I am not in favour of prison ships :}

Send them down
 

As a retired Magistrate of 24 years service, and having studied and seen all forms of punishment, my opinion is that a minimum of 1 year in prison is most appropriate and that their names should be published, instead of being withheld because of their age.

^^
Another good point. Name and shame. If a criminal is deemed old enough to be sentenced, they are old enough to be shamed. At 15, I'm slightly older than the prats mentioned, but my idea of justice does not waiver.

I need to buck up?... A couple of juveniles who had no idea of the coniskwecensiz ov there akshuns did something exremely dangerous. I am sure if they were aware of that, they wouldn't have said to each other "Lets go try bring down an Airliner with this £2 laser torch"
I do however believe in Justice and if you don't want your comments taken litturally then don't take mine as such.
They should be named... They should be punished.......They should be educated in the consequences of their actions and not treated with Kid Gloves.
Lashed?..... locked up and throw away the key? Get real.:ugh:
How about making examples of the real scroats in our society like the bankers who last year alone cost me over 30% of my private pension and will still be able to buy a new Cirrus with this years bonus.
How about Pilots without current medicals still flying years after losing it?
Where are you going to stop?

Cretin or Criminal?
 

Is it a criminal offence to be cretinous?

Is that a year in prison (or hang draw and quarter) for muckin' around with a great little toy... or a year in prison for endangering the lives of others.

It's likely that these youngsters would to go into prison thoughtless and underoccupied and come out drug-addicted, thoughtless and underoccupied with an education in TWOCking and Burglary(Domestic). Now... Do you really want to send them to prison?

Age, so what?
 

The age of responsibility is 10. These kids were 14.

There has been extensive publicity on Teesside, and elsewhere, about the dangers of lasers. Even bus drivers have been temporally blinded so it's time to get serious and make examples of scum like them.

If you step over the line you take the punishment. This country is in the state that prevails because we've been too soft for too long. We've tried, in the past probation, now called a community punishment, and the authorities tell us that it works. Not in my experience of seeing the same faces over and over again in court. A punishment is needed and it has to be one that shows others that if you offend society you pay the price.

The comparison with bankers is totally irrelevant in this scenario, but if you want to persue it perhaps you should blame Brown and his clowns who were informed of what was happening more than two years previously and let it go on when they had the power in legislation to do something about it.

It's time we got rid of these horrendously expensive copper choppers. It costs a fortune just to catch some teenage car thief only to see him have his wrist slapped and told off for being naughty. They are a very long way from being cost effective. I for one am sick of being woken by our local ego-trippers at least twice a week, and I'm not unique in my views.

As for the Laser-louts. Well, I'm a pilot. Enough said.

And it's Brown and his clowns that have allowed the soft approach in this situation to develop too. That doen't make it irrelevant. If the general consensus is to whip them within an inch of their lives, then that's what should be done.
However because we don't seem to live in the real world then why doesn't the state look into the upbringing of these little criminals?
Oh and the Bankers at least knew the consequences of their actions.
Calling them Scum won't help either.

It does seem a bit harsh to me....

When we were kids me and my brother used to shine an old second world war signalling search light (which my grandad had nicked from the Germans) at the navy helos. We learned how to signal "hello" in Morse code and to our surprise one circled around and signalled "hello" back....

We had no intention or blinding the pilot nor did we even think of it at the time. Kids will be kids, had a copper knocked on the door and given us a bollocking, explaining how dangerous it could have been, and had my parents known then no doubt we would have stopped. Should we have been locked up and the key thrown away?

There's a world of difference between the red pen pointers (usually given away free by reps) that some juveniles shine at ladies' t*ts and the green variety used by yobs to target aircraft.

Google Green Laser and you'll soon see the degree of power that some of these lasers have.

I'm pleased that the ANO has been modified to take in lasers as Article 73 (reckless endangerment) was a bit too non-specific.

As for punishment: certainly name and shame regardless of age and also a custodial sentence ,(with apologies to Voltaire), 'pour encourager les autres'

Cusco

There is a reason why they are pointing these lasers at aircraft - because they fully understand the potential damage they can cause. Lock them up for 12 months and when they get out make sure they go on a no-fly list for at least 10 years.

By the way why is laser spelt with an @ sign? :confused:

This is a global system substitution to prevent google popping up lazer ads in the "context-sensitive" ads that adorn (and pay for) PPRuNe.

SD

Cusco, I'm surprised when you say that you are glad that the ANO has been modified to take in l@sers and then say the punishment should be a custodial sentence.

The new offence considerably waters down the offence by making it summary only (not triable in the Crown Court) and the maximum sentence is a fine (£2,500) - the offence is not imprisonable. Please see the thread running in Rumours and News.

Sorry to dissapoint everyone but a 14 year old is not going to be sent to custody for this type of offence and further, if charged under the new ANO offence no one is going to get a custodial sentence unless they are fined and refuse to pay it.

Oh and as for Bankers - I'm all for them as they are making lawyers look popular:E

OK, I bow to your obvious knowledge.

Maybe with no custodial sentence in the frame and no tying up the Crown Courts but a juicy big fine instead,more of these scrotes will be prosecuted and convicted.

Lifting of reporting restrictions and naming and shaming in the local rag IMHO would also be a good idea.

Unless such naming becomes some kind of 'badge of honour' as became the ASBO in certain areas.

Cusco

Anyone know what the sentance would be in the USA for a similar crime?

We in the UK are getting more and more soft with scotes!!

Google is your friend.

USA Sep 2009 USA Jan 2010 USA Jan 2010UK Jan 2010 :confused:

The UK values criminals votes ahead of the lives of their targets.

So what's new?

My neighbour was lasered in his car the other night from a footbridge over the by-pass. Wonder what they'd be charged with if caught?

Bronx, in the examples you've provided it appears that the convicted law-breakers were all grown adults who were fully aware of what they were doing, and too old to hide behide a mask of stupidity.

Perhaps community sentences in Great Britain are too soft, but certainly I don't believe that prison would benefit either the cretins or the generel public. They would be just two more convicts that our taxes are being used to feed, clothe and shelter.

I doubt a fine would be punishment enough for them, neither. Because of their young age its obvious that it'll be the parents who coff up. But forcing them to do menial labour would make them wish they hadn't been caught.

The Heff

As these two are 14 year olds I agree with you, especially if they haven't been in trouble before.

The problem with the UK's new laser offense is the courts don;t have power to send anyone to jail for it, whether they are 14 or 44. Not even "grown adults who were fully aware of what they were doing, and too old to hide behind a mask of stupidity."

Laser attacks are now a global flight safety problem. The number has grown rapidly over the last few years. Punishments need to be tough at a time like this, not made softer like the UK has done with this new offense.

Expert comment please
 

Some one will have to help me with this but i am told that there is an offence in the UK called "criminal damage likely to endanger life".

This was intended for use when people drop large objects from railway bridges into the path of oncoming trains. Perhaps in the case of attacks by the green laser this would be the best charge.

Any one with a legal background like to comment?

This is nicely covered by article 73 (so-called 'reckless endangerment' of an a/c) of the ANO though the 2009 ANO which I have yet to see may have 'shuffled the numbers' a bit.

Cusco




Article 137 of the 2009 ANO
"A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft."

Cusco is quite correct and in order to prove the Criminal Damage offence the prosecution would have to prove that damage had occurred and that the damage had been caused with the necessary intent.

There is some debate going on amongst lawyers at the moment as to what the new offence actually means as the wording states "..so as to dazzle or distract..." rather than "...such as is likely to..." or ".... such as may cause a danger of...."

It appears that the mere act of shining a light or a l@ser at an aircraft may not constitute the offence unless the pilot is actually dazzled or distracted.

I imagine that any pilot becoming aware of a lazer being flashed at them would be only too willing to state that they were both dazzled and distracted!

FBW

That depends upon (1) whether they see it and (2) whether they were in fact dazzled - after all, unlike the shining light offence, perjury is an imprisonable offence

Which begs the question:

If a new piece of aviation legislation is introduced which is immediately the subject of uncertainty and debate amongst the very legal profession that are supposed to implement it, are not the views of legal people with aviation experience canvassed by the law-drafters to avoid just such a problem?

Cusco

Cusco,

you must be joking - the last people to be consulted on such matters are lawyers that would be far too sensible.

Prison time is WAY to extreme for this crime. They're kids mucking around (even the 20 year olds with the mental capacity of kids). Community service, I feel, would be a far better solution. I would put them to work on the field cleaning FOD, scaring birds etc, try to help them get an understanding of how critical the landing phase is.

I do have a question, how many of the people commenting here have had lasers (not sure what a L-at-ser is) shone at them while they're flying? How many while you're on an ILS? How many While Circling?

I've had "laser attacks" On the ILS 3 times, 3 times circling into Essendon, 4 times circling into Bankstown, twice departing Melbourne, countless idiots shine their high beams while on approach into black hole strips, been spotlighted while making approach into the same strips, Had fireworks shot at me enroute and circling to land. Not once did I have issues conducting my approach, no more irritating than a blinking OM light.

Now once you've gone through all that and still feel the same, feel free to "shoot me down". :ok: