eocvictim

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how many of the people commenting here have had lasers (not sure what a L-at-ser is) shone at them while they're flying?

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Probably not many, if any.
This is the Private Flying forum and most PPLs don't fly at night.
The targets are almost always commercial aircraft and helicopters at night.
However, many private pilots have a wider interest and knowledge of aviation than just their own experiences.

Reported incidents in the UK -
2007- 30
2008 - 206
2009 - 737

Using your logic, unless people have gone through being hit by a drunk driver they shouldn't express an opinion about the dangers of drink-driving. :rolleyes:

Not at all, people are entitled to their opinion. I think it would be prudent to discuss whether the punishment fits the crime with those who are in the firing line, so to speak.

I dont see how someone who hasn't experienced it can call it dangerous to the extent that it warrants prison time.

The thinking by the UK establishment seems to be that the victim should have no input whatsoever into deciding the punishment :rolleyes: After all, the politicians always know best...

Eocvictin you say "I dont see how someone who hasn't experienced it can call it dangerous to the extent that it warrants prison time."

I haven't experienced murder but I think that it is dangerous, especially for me!

I've sent many offenders to prison for burglary of a dwelling house, but thankfully I've never been burgled.

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Originally Posted by eocvictim

Now once you've gone through all that and still feel the same, feel free to "shoot me down".

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I think everyone is mis-interpreting what eocvictim's challenge. I read eocvictim's post as statement that he does not believe that shining laser-pens, high-powered lamps, etc at aircraft on approach is as dangerous or as life-threatening as it is being hyped up to be.

The challenge then, is after you've experienced being targetted by a laser/lamp then if you still disagree that lasers/lamps aren't particularly life-threatening, then by all means: "shoot him down".

The Heff I don't. The danger is not being hyped up.

eocvictim I agree. It's a great shame the UK authorities didn't do that. If they had, I doubt if the maximum penalty for the UK's new laser offence would be a fine. You're entitled to base your opinion on your own experiences. IMHO it is perfectly reasonable to base an opinion on what we learn from the experiences of others.
Most, maybe all, pilots of emergency services helicopters wouldn't agree with your assessment of the danger to flight safety.

The new legislation is there because in the past there were difficulties in court convicting the offenders in circumstances where the pilot was aware of the light being directed at the aircraft but it was not considered to be endangering the aircraft sufficiently to satisfy article 73 of the ANO. It is not so simple in court to say the light was shone at the aircraft, therefore it was endangered.
The new legislation now allows the commander of the aircraft to state he/she was aware of the light directed and it was a distraction, which I imagine it almost always will be. A far simpler point to prove in court.
If it can be shown that the offender was in fact endangering the aircraft by their actions they may still be charged with the article 73 offence, which carries a maximum imprisonment of 5 years.

Hopefully this will now catch those that would have otherwise escaped conviction.

waveydavey

Out of interest, can you tell me how many not guilty verdicts there were on charges brought under article 73?

Are you suggesting that there were difficulties in cases brought to court or perceived difficulties in cases never put before a court?

Today a man who used a home-built laser against at least six AWACSs landing at Geilenkirchen (Germany) was acquitted before a Dutch court. (Note that the approach to Geilenkirchen is over Dutch territory.)

The court found the man not guilty because the DA failed to prove sufficiently that the man's intention was to cause significant bodily damage, or to crash the aircraft. The reason for this was that it was not made clear what the range, intensity and effect of the laser was.

Vrijspraak voor laserstraal op Awacs | nu.nl/binnenland | Het laatste nieuws het eerst op nu.nl (in Dutch)

Looks like we're going to need some additional legislation in the Netherlands too.

Heffs on the mark :ok:

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I haven't experienced murder but I think that it is dangerous, especially for me!

I've sent many offenders to prison for burglary of a dwelling house, but thankfully I've never been burgled.

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Punishment should fit the crime. I'm unaware of a case where the pilot felt he was unable or unfit to continue the flight. It still seems to me that it is more of a nuisance than a life threatening distraction (sounds silly written that way). To put it into perspective, I find testing of high intensity runway lighting and PAPI more distracting. I also find it much harder, more distracting and more dangerous to land toward a setting sun.

You must remember that these attacks usually occur during or prior to the initial approach phase. Very rarely are the lasers point in the front of the cockpit, usually the sides. For me it has always been a case of watching the clocks, look out the front and continue the approach, in one extreme case I put a map in the window for 30 seconds.

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The court found the man not guilty because the DA failed to prove sufficiently that the man's intention was to cause significant bodily damage, or to crash the aircraft. The reason for this was that it was not made clear what the range, intensity and effect of the laser was.

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This is exactly the problem. In a similar incident (I know, I seem to attract morons) I had some kids throw rocks on my car from an overpass. I managed to apprehend them and detain them until the police arrived. The damage was minimal and no one was hurt. The 3 girls were very scared and genuinely could not see the danger in what they were doing. I was satisfied when the police told me they would be given a written warning and scared by a visit to the lock up. Now had the rocks caused me or anyone else to have an accident it would have been a different offence. At the end of the day nothing happened so how could they be punished as if something did?

Unfortunately these people are generally not the brightest sparks and just dont realise what they're doing is stupid. Locking them up wont deter others (they're dont think like intelligent people) and a slap on the wrist is usually enough to stop the same idiot re-offending. If there was evidence that these people were re-offending I would be singing a different tune.

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Most, maybe all, pilots of emergency services helicopters wouldn't agree with your assessment of the danger to flight safety.

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I can understand that they're a lot easier target and have probably experienced it a lot more frequently. I dont fly choppers professionally so I couldn't comment on the dangers they perceive.

restorative justice?
 

Of course this happens when genuine grief has been caused, the perp has to face the victim, and seems to be very effective.

If there ever are victims of the little green lights, they may not be able to speak up.....but how about the perps sitting through an AAIB film of the consequences of an air accident? with their parent and grandparent as support and as future mentor? the debris field and the personal belongings would be testimony enough to the possible consequence of the thoughtless behavior.

Could a relative of a victim be there to represent the anguish of survivors?

And an authority figure to be dispassionate. Just an idea for an approach that might help change behavior.

Also, rewards for turning in little green pen lights. Bring in a dozen and visit a cockpit, or go for a flight with your pals? The sort of flight that people go on to overcome fear of flying.....

<KEVLAR>
I was tempted to wonder whether there had been either an accident or even a near-miss as a result of l@ser or torch-beam?
</KEVLAR>

Let's send them to beaches of St Maarten for two weeks all inclusive and they can sit and watch the aircraft in the hope that they will appreciate what they did was wrong.

No, me neither!

I wouldn't mind, but many a time aircraft on approach to my local airport, have shined their landing lights in my back garden.

It's a bit annoying, but you don't hear me saying "lock up the pilot's and throw away the key."