Flying Airways in the UK?
 

Soon I may finally be able to file airways regularly in the UK using my FAA IR and an N-reg aircraft. However after doing my IR in 2008 and coming back to the UK looking over the airways charts has left me slightly bemused; for example, one regular flight that I might want to take would be from the south of England to Scotland, on inspection of the route it seems that from 0700-2000hrs airway N601 has a MEA of FL140, making it impassable without oxygen. In general a lot of the airways seem to have quite hight MEAs compared to the US, I guess because we have mainly class A only airways and only put them where commercial flights need them. Is there any way round this though? Is it possible to file an IFR flight plan that is only partly in the airways with some parts dipping below out of CAS?

I've sent you a PM with some trip writeups, but yes, in short, European IFR flight is difficult without oxygen - not because you cannot generate routes at FL100 or so but because flying that low places you squarely into IMC which (most of the year) means likely icing conditions and almost inevitable turbulence of varying severity.

The name of the game is therefore a climb to VMC on top. In my book, this also means that the flight is scrapped if the cloud tops are too high - unless you have a solidly deiced aircraft.

OTOH there is a significant pilot population who "just fly" but I am not among them. The smarter ones are doing it in deiced planes, and preferably without passengers :) Obviously, the well funded ones are doing it in pressurised planes, at FL200 plus.

Working out routings (there is an automated tool for it so you don't need the SRDs) works at FL070 but you get poor routes. FL100 is better. FL140 is better still and above that there is very little to gain except in the Alpine region where you need FL160. Then next big improvement comes at FL200+.

Contact Tower

The answer is YES. On the flightplan put the airways you can stay in ie NXZ WAL then the bit you cannot stay in but are flying under put DCT instead of the airway to the next intersection/ point where you hit the airway again.

One example is flying from Scotland arriving at DCS you wont pick up CAS at lowish level until 20 North of WAL. For that section you will get a deconfliction service from warton and get handed back into CAS North of WAL

In the remarks column put IFPS Reroute accept so you dont get the flight plan thrown out and accept whatever routing you get. Airbourne its then easier to negotiate your routing you want.

The other way is on the flightplan to put the higher level to keep in the airway to get the plan accepted but then airbourne ask for lower as in reality you have no intention of flying the higher level.

Pace

You do not have to be in controlled airspace to fly IFR and you do not have to fly IFR in controlled airspace. The problem you may have, will be if you fly a route where you drop below the base of CAS and then intend to re enter CAS as its base lowers, you MUST obtain a clearance to do so. Do not assume that filing a flight plan automatically gives you clearance to enter controlled airspace. Normally itis not a problem BUt it would be prudent to have an alternative routing in case the controller says those unwelcome words 'remain clear of controlled airspace' and you are IMC at lower levels!

Well, yes, here one just has to assume that the OP is familiar with the difference between "Eurocontrol IFR" and UK's "informal IFR in Class G", and also how the two can sometimes interact in bizzare ways....

Eurocontrol IFR in the UK can be tricky at low levels (anything below about FL140) because if you - inadvertently - file a route which has an OCAS section, you can be dropped out of CAS, London Control's service is terminated, you get handed to London Info, and then you are stuffed because your IFR clearance has been binned and you won't get back in unless LI negotiates a new clearance with LC, which could take some time - or never if they don't feel like doing it. It does catch out foreign pilots, occassionally.

That's interesting, it had occurred to me to do what Pace suggests, but I was afraid of what IO540 and bingofuel warns might happen as well.

I take it Pace you know that what you suggest is acceptable to ATC? Also what does "PPSC Reroute accept" actually mean?

I have found that when I drop out then back in (going up North or back from Ireland) that the Information service normally includes in the initial response a request for eta at the joining point and tells me they are arranging my cas entry. If they don't I immediately give them my entry point as in 'nxyz ifr fl100 re rentering CAS at GECKO at 17) and information then sorts it.

This doesn't work when you are dumped as in 'descend to altitude 4500 cleared to leave CAS by descent'

IFR Flying Tips
 

My view is that you would be better off filing non airway IFR in the UK. Dropping in and out of Class A is painful and when you want to join again you will end up going round in circles. Unless you can stay in the low airways en route system it really is not worth it.

I tend to agree, and this is what I do (rarely fly Eurocontrol IFR around the UK). Depart VFR and disappear in the nearest cloud, no problem.

But flying around at 2400 / 3400 / 4400 ft / FL054 / FL064 etc ;) is often not a lot of fun. ..

Take a nice summer day with a lot of nice fluffy white stuff and you have a very rough flight. Going airways at FL100-150 is a good way to deal with it - which is precisely why one does it around Europe. One could fly "VFR" (OCAS) around Europe too, down in the muck.

The other example is winter flying, when the 0C level is close to the ground, and there is just a thin cloud layer. If you fly "UK VFR" (perhaps in IMC) then being below CAS base you will end up in icing conditions, possibly for hours. This is OK in an Aztec with boots (which after all has another incentive ;) to fly "VFR") but most GA planes are not de-iced. Whereas an airways flight will transition to VMC in minutes and sit there enroute.

<<you do not have to fly IFR in controlled airspace>>

You surely do in Class A?? Or have regs changed.

OK. Thanks very much for all your replies, it seems to me that this is something that can be done but has the potential to be a bit difficult sometimes, I can only try and see I suppose. Longer term I'll just use oxygen.

If you file your flight plan at a reasonably-equipped airfield (such as, say, Biggin Hill), ask the tower to file it for you. If they get any objections or reroute requests from Brussels the tower will be able to advise you how better to route your flight.

Contact Tower

You specifically mentioned London Scotland :) I have a lot of time in light twins in those areas. 10540 is correct in warning you about icing in anything but the height of summer unless your aircraft has proper deice/anti ice.

having said that there are two elements.

Firstly putting in an acceptable flight plan which wont be thrown out and secondly the actual route and levels you will fly or negotiate with ATC when you are airbourne and in the system.

Putting in a flight plan IFPS Re Route accept means that if there is a mistake you are happy for a correct route to be put in for you. This saves the plan being coughed out, but now their is more resistance to IFPS re route changes and sometimes even with that your plan can be kicked into touch.

In years of flying I have never been refused re entry into the airways further along the line.
ATC know your predicament in a non pressurised aircraft and are more than helpful as they are with levels and more direct routings.

I can even remember flying back from scotland at night through a front. On leaving the front near Glasgow although the aircraft had dealt with the ice there was a lot on the airframe and the cruise speed was low. I asked to be allowed to drop out of the airway down to FL60 so that i could drop off the ice, climb back up and continue. That request was approved and I maintained radio contact with the airways controller.

Without going into details there are tricks we play to work the system to our advantage. This happens in low airways and high airways both in twins I fly and in jets I fly in the high airways and these are known and used across the board by those who live in the airways system.

Take care and other than the summer beware in a non deiced aircraft. It also helps to carry oxygen if you have to comply with the higher levels you may have filed ;)

Pace

Of course A is IFR-only (the irrelevant SVFR case excluded). What he was referring to is the ability to get around the UK pretty well in Class G, VMC or IMC, and IMC=IFR :)
I think things have moved on since ..... when....the 1950s... ??

I think this is meant to be written as "IFPS reroute accepted". This tells IFPS (Eurocontrol) to not generate an automatic REJ but to pass the failed FP to a human operator who, subject to workload and other human conditions ;) will have a look at it. I've been there, to the very desks where they do this. It's a manual process - dragging routes on PC screens.

There is no guarantee they will do this (the IFPS manual says so plainly) and indeed on one of the times when I was unable to get a route to work (last time was 2007) and was in a real pickle they would not assist, and as I was at an airport with a 5-day PPR for both arrival and departure I had to cancel the next flight and go elsewhere, and this was a really major problem.

They will also not fix up routes which are drastically wrong.

The other thing is that the modified route needs to be somehow communicated to the pilot so he knows what he should be flying. In theory this is the responsibility of the office which files the FP. This introduces certain issues because by the time this happens he will be in/near the plane........ homebriefing.com send you an SMS or email but this will contain the airways-name route and you then need to generate a plog from that so you have the individual (non-airways-name) waypoints to load into the GPS... AFPEx do not have such a facility (yet) so that service is best used only for known-valid routes.

I would therefore not rely on using this remark. Better to use the available tools to get the route right, file it without the reroute option, and go.

I think that the odd UK airways system works because most of the traffic is jets which go up to FL2xx right away. The rest of Europe is much more straightforward for IFR GA, fortunately. Also it appears that Scotland is a lot better than the south :)

10540

My apologies typo error and brain fade :hmm: Of Course IFPS. :O (rectified) It does still work 70% of the time and not always in the right place to have all the wizzard tools at hand.... so still useful... and for the small effort to put it in a safeguard against getting the plan chucked out.

Pace

Pace..Shock horror surely not :)....dont admit to that with us Air traffikers listening in!! :cool::cool::cool:

I certainly appreciate you sharing your experience :). On the point of icing yes I'm very aware of it, my original question was quite theoretical in the sense that it was only about airspace and not about the overall subject of actually flying from A to B in reality, which of course requires consideration of many things... with icing being one of the more important ones.

IFR Flying Tips
 

I believe it is worth you joining PPL-IR Europe you will get lots of very useful help on flight planning and operating in Euro airspace. Asking the tower to submit your flightplan is ok but I strongly suggest you verify the route first on cmfu.eurocontrol. The site is a bit non user friendly at first but it will really help you to build confidence by getting the flight plan accepted first time. I use Flitestar and I have never got a plan accepted when just using the programme output but by using the veryfier you will learn the accepted routes as around Europe if you are flying north south from the uk or in the uk there are not that many airways to choose from at low level it is the entry and exit points that can be confusing.

Fisbangwollop

How many free pints have you been offered for a direct destination ? and whats a flight level or two between friends ;)

How many calls have you had claiming severe icing or turbulence for a higher level maybe a 20 degree left or right due severe weather which just happens to be direct destination and the list is endless ;)

Anyway isnt it different in Scotland? spend all your time in airways avoiding microlights and watching the local pastime of "tree landings" :rolleyes: wonder how Mc Biggles is getting on?

Pace

I've popped out of an airway in the past where there has been a change of base level. I continued on the navaid as if I was still in the airway and then I just requested that ATC co-ordinate my return back into the airway when the base stepped down again.

If I recall correctly they requested an ETA, and I was reminded to "remain clear of controlled airspace". Approx 5-10 minutes before reaching the airway I was given a new SQUAWK code (classic sign that you are about to be passed to another frequency), I was passed to the agency controlling the airway who promptly cleared me in. Easy!

If my memory serves me correctly I was flying north from Exmor in the N864

Other worthy point of note was that the SQUAWK code given to use when I re-entered the airway was the same as was issued on departure from Exeter, this has happened on a number of occasions. I've always had first class service from ATC in terms of airways flying.

I would also re-iterate the icing points, be careful and make regular icing checks, both visually of the airframe, spinners, OAT etc and also watch for a reducing IAS. Always have a plan B whether it be a descent (obviously with terrain in mind) or en route diversion.

If you dont do it already consider making a note of the freezing level on departure as you climb through it. This will change as you travel through a changing airmass but I've often found it more accurate than the forecast levels. You will then know what level to request a descent too if you need to shed some ice.

I've descended before to shift some ice and requested a level based on the zero degree level I had noted down during my departure, and despite it being over an hour later it was still very similar and I flew along at the level that was just above 0 and cleared it up quickly.

Having this information will hopefully reduce your workload at what can already be quite busy by not having to request further descent or descending more than you need to.

Apologise if the icing lesson seems to come across as a lecture I only intend it as friendly advice :ok: