IMHO, its a pity that UK PPL flying training does not mandate at least some time in non radio a/c operating into/from grass strips. If it did, PPL's would have no fears of flying non radio, and therefore a radio failure would be a non-event. They'd then have plenty of spare capacity to fly the aircraft to a suitable airfield, avoiding CAS, looking out for traffic, and observing the signals square to join the correct circuit. (As an added benefit, there would be far less posts on here about what spare Icom to carry, how many spare batteries for their spare icom to carry etc etc :ugh:)

Mariner9,

Whilst I don't disagree with your sentiments regarding PPL non-radio training (can never have enough training), were I to be above (or in) a solid overcast at the time of the radio failure, I think I'd be fairly pleased that Mr. Icom was along for the ride (with his annoying spare batteries etc ;)).

FF :ok:

Whilst f4rting about with a mobile phone on a long sector, I discovered it wouldn't get a signal. Not even when over the centre of the UK. It seems (from internet study) that modern mobiles won't work if above something like 3000 ft due to them being in line-of-sight of too many receiver nodes. Old phones don't have this inhibit function and will work but are not billed due to the 'error' signal sent to the billing department.

Feel free to humiliate me if you've got better info!:ok:

There is a LATCC phone number at Swanick for the controller who sits at the fancy desk in the middle of all of the controllers who have the radar screens. I called him (as part of research into this situation) and he said he would hand his handset over to one of the sector controllers if I had lost 'radio' contact.

Blue Up
757/767

Can I ask someone who habitually flies below 3000' to have a try with their phone? Maybe try one new one and one old one (about 5 years old or more)

As usual some very good advice (IO) and some crap advice (PP) on here.

I had radio failure departing a class D airfield in the past, I just continued with my clearance and once in G airspace continued non-radio and went home. Luckily home is an unlicenced airfield aith A/G so it didn't really matter arriving non radio.

Many airfields, including class D ones have set rt failure procedures......for example "sqwark 7600, orbit around XYZ VRP 5 times left, then 5 times right, enter the zone at XXX altitude, over fly the field at XXX and orbit once to the left and watch for light signals"....or similar.

FF

Don't disagree with that FF, but would hope that a pilot flying in such conditions would be suitably trained and experienced to deal with radio failure.

But the majority of the radio-related questions posted on here appear to be from day time VFR PPL's who appear to have been indoctrinated with the idea that in-flight radio failure is an emergency that requires immediate landing. Indeed, the original question on this thread suggests that immediate landing is required following radio failure in uncontrolled airspace VFR. This is a recurring question, and IMHO shows that UK PPL training is sadly lacking in that direction.

I flew a departure over Rotterdam at 1500 feet. The phone could not get a lock on a tower. It was the characteristic beeping in my headset that alerted me to the fact that I had forgotten to switch it off - so much for immunity of the equipment (and this was an IFR certified DA-40).

Rotterdam, being a fairly big city, will have dozens of masts close by so I guess it's very easy to be in line of sight with too many of them. Still, I was only at 1500 feet. Made me wonder how practical the option of digging out your cell phone in case of radio failure really is. I think you need to orbit somewhere really low in order not to be in line of sight with too many masts.

And for the record, mine is a Nokia 6310i. I don't know how old the phone itself is, but the firmware (use *#0000# to find out) is dated 17-4-02.

Firstly, I second IO - I carry an ICOM, the VOR capable verision and a handheld GPS. Guess, this combo is gonna get me home if all else fails.:ok:

Had a couple of what appeared to be radio failures. I say 'appeared to be' on purpose, because:
- in one case the intercom went down - used the handheld mike
- in another, box one went down but the other worked
- another time the PTT switch on my yoke (P1 side) gave up - plugged into P2 and kept chattering away.
Just because you can't hear/talk does NOT mean you've got a full-blown radio failure!

All of the above in CAS, hence squawk 7600 and follow NORDO procedures. These are actually published for many airfields, not only big ones.

Re the mobile phone situation: Firstly, some countries (Austria, e.g.) actually have the good sense to publish a mobile no to call in case of radio failure. This is published on their charts. I have never tried it, but AFAIK this gets you straight to Wien Info.

Now, the trick with mobiles is, that the denser populated the area, the more masts there are. In other words, flying over central France or such will get you a signal much higher up than over, say, central London (please no 'glide clear' comments from the plonkers on here).

I've never heard about the new vs. old phone, will try that, I've got a few stone-age ones gathering dust, will put them to use next time in the air!

Was once in a situation like the one under discussion, and used a cell phone to talk to the tower, squawked 7600 on the transponder. Air priority call, straight thru to the tower, priority landing, no problem!! Technology is great.:ok:

Insane, what was your altitude and how densely populated was the area you were flying over? We're trying to establish at what altitude you can reasonably expect to get a signal+lock, depending on population density and other factors.

BackPacker, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule for this. In general, the more remote your location, the higher up you will get a signal & lock.

Agree, but it would be nice to have something like a ballpark figure, along the lines of:
10.000 feet - forget it in any case
3000 feet - only over sparsly populated areas, if you're lucky
1000 feet or below - over a congested area/city

Well, I certainly would not say 'forget it' above 10k. I have had a signal and lock higher than that (pretty remote part of Spain). This has also been discussed in the 'Rumors & News' forum here with people reporting signals up in the 300s FLs. It really depends where you are (and this old/new phone issue may well play a part).

Radio failure? Deal with it and fly the aeroplane. Go back to base (for which you of course know the non-radio procedure)....or if you havent the range to get there, go somewhere else suitable for a non-radio arrival (i.e notGatwick or LHR). Remember the light signals?

If everyone flew around without so much radio control, and were used to making their own decisions instead of relying on ATC to do it for them, it wouldn't be an issue.

PS don't forget to submit an MOR, like some moron did a few years ago when he couldnt change frequency...:ugh:

If you have a radio failure outside CAS ...

Squawk 7600. D&D will then see you straight away on a display that only shows radio fail & emegency squawks. We will then track you & inform any airfield you appear to be heading to that you may be arriving with them, you will then not be totally unexpected when you pitch up in their circuit.

Attempt to contact D&D on 121.5 we monitor it 24/7

Mobile phone... I have phoned D&D whilst flying (01895 426150 will put you straight through) and had no problems at 3000 feet. If you just have a straight forward radio fail with no other problems, dont expect an ATC service off us, we will just take your C/S routing ETA & inform destination AFD. If you have other issues, we would obviously assist as required.

DD