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We seem to be getting better
At pre-flight briefing.
The UK AIS website stats which can be found at http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/en/useage1.gif indicate that both the number of logins and briefings served is up on last year (with the exception of February, which is probably weather related). Over 700 logins and over 550 briefings PER DAY delivered during March. |
I think it may well have something to do with Notam plot (and similar programs). You could spend literally hours if you are inexperienced (i.e. me) looking through all the co-ordinates to find conflicts.
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What's a NOTAM?
:ooh: |
And wot does AerBabe look at?..
A NOTAW:=
Sir George Cayley |
I think NOTAM is short for NO TAMishanter (spelling) which in turn is Scotish for "I've lost my hat" I could be wrong of course.
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I think it might be IT Technical speak meaning no use whatsoever for a useless and confusing site that pumps out information relevant for someones else flight but never your own.
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But it's sooooo useful for learning that someone is training buzzards in the London FIR......
With modern IT, why can't there be an interactive method of entering points on a map (e.g. MS Autoroute style 'drawing pins'), then asking for NOTAMs to be displayed pictorially and in text form for a user-specified time period and distance from the route. E.g. from 0900-1300 tomorrow for anything within 30 miles of the specified track? The plethora of co-ordinates in the UK NOTAM brief make it virtually useless for quick reference - it's almost just a TCIC site for the UK AIS. |
OK BEagle, I'll rise to the bait.
Use the Narrow Route Brief. That does precisely what you want. It wants to know:- A briefing ID - anything you want - it's for your reference. Where you are going from Where you are going to How high you are going to fly. If you enter only that info you will get a brief giving all NOTAM affecting a corridor 10nm either side of the direct track between your departure and arrival a/d's plus NOTAM for the two a/d. It will be suitable for VFR and IFR, will include Nav Warnings, and will be valid for 48 Hrs from when you click the button. You can filter it down more by tweaking the controls. If you want to work your way through the entire FIR brief be my guest, but if you learn how to drive the thing you will find life a lot easier. Mike |
Mike,
I think it is more likely the model rocket, falconary and RC aero clubs realised what a good tool it is for locating meetings! |
"Use the Narrow Route Brief. That does precisely what you want.
It wants to know:- A briefing ID - anything you want - it's for your reference. Where you are going from Where you are going to How high you are going to fly. Except that it requires me to log in every damn time, it has that stupid arse-about-face way of entering the time and date (why no drop down?), it doesn't understand aerodromes without ICAO locators, it doesn't seem to allow intermediate waypoints to be entered in lat and long (or if it does, it isn't obvious), doesn't display the results on a printable map.... And quite what exclude NOTAMs with effective date earlier than () days. (Range 1-999, leave blank to include all) means, I don't know. Why not use the date? Sorry, it needs to be better. How do you enter "I want to fly from Enstone to Bourn via the Olney VRP tomorrow at 2500ft and want NOTAMs to cover 10 nm from track from 0900 to 1700"? |
BEagle,
Intermediates can be entered thus: DCT 5137N00156W DCT 5120N00145W DCT |
BEagle, surely at least it's better than the old system, i.e. a great long list that you had to wade through!
I want to fly from Enstone to Bourn via the Olney VRP tomorrow at 2500ft and want NOTAMs to cover 10 nm from track from 0900 to 1700"?
Here is the result from the above query for tomorrow: Pre-Flight Information Bulletin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PRE-FLIGHT NARROW U N I T E D K I N G D O M INFORMATION ROUTE AERONAUTICAL INFORMATION SERVICE (NATS LTD) BULLETIN R0701128 05/05/07 20:10 UTC UK AIS Telephone: +44 (0) 20 8745 3464. WEB SITE: WWW.AIS.ORG.UK PERIOD: 05/05/08 09:00 UTC TO 05/05/08 17:00 UTC PIB INCLUDES NOTAM/SNOWTAM/BIRDTAM FLIGHT NUMBER: TEST ADEP: EGTK ADES: EGSN TRAFFIC: VFR PURPOSE: GENERAL AND MISCELLANEOUS HEIGHT: +/-4000FT WIDTH: +/-10NM SUBJECT: ALTN: FIR : EGTT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- F020 DCT DTY222019 DCT DTY100015 DCT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- INCLUDES ALL NOTAM AVAILABLE A E R O D R O M E - I N F O R M A T I O N : AERODROME (DEPARTURE) - EGTK (OXFORD KIDLINGTON) : NO INFO RECEIVED OR MATCHING THE QUERY. AERODROME (DESTINATION) - EGSN (BOURN) : NO INFO RECEIVED OR MATCHING THE QUERY. E N - R O U T E - I N F O R M A T I O N : EGTT (LONDON) : RAC : FROM 05/04/13 12:36 TO PERM B0721/05 E)UNLICENSED AERODROMES-LANDING AND TAKE OFF NEAR OPEN AIR ASSEMBLIES: RULE 5 OF THE RULES OF THE AIR REGULATIONS 1996 HAS BEEN AMENDED. FOR LANDING AND TAKE OFF WITHIN 1000 METRES OF AN ORGANISED OPEN AIR ASSEMBLY OF MORE THAN 1000 PERSONS COMPLIANCE IS REQUIRED WITH PROCEDURES NOTIFIED BY THE CAA. AT A LANDING SITE OTHER THAN AN AERODROME THE WRITTEN PERMISSION OF THE ORGANISER OF THE ASSEMBLY IS ALSO REQUIRED. FULL DETAILS OF THE PROCEDURES ARE AVAILABLE ON THE CAA WEBSITE WWW.CAA.CO.UK AND WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE NEXT AMENDMENT OF THE UK AIP. REF UK AIP GEN 1-6 REFERS RAC : FROM 04/05/01 00:01 TO PERM B0741/04 E)PENNINE RADAR WITHDRAWN. PILOTS REQUIRING AN ATS WI THE FORMER PENNINE AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY SHOULD CONTACT LATCC (MIL) (CALLSIGN LONDON MIL) ON FREQ 135.275 ENR 1-6-6-1 REFERS OTH : FROM 05/05/02 12:58 TO 06/01/31 09:00 EST N0061/05 E)OXFORD JOHN RADCLIFFE HOSPITAL. 3 CRANES ADJACENT TO SITE. ALL HEL TO CALL HOSPITAL SWITCHBOARD BEFORE USE TO ENSURE CRANE JIBS NOT OBSTRUCTING HEL LDG SITE. MAX 249FT AGL. OTH : FROM 05/05/02 13:03 TO 05/12/07 10:00 EST N0062/05 E)SANDY HEATH OBST LGT U/S. PSN 520748N 0001430W HGT 972FT/AMSL 790FT/AGL OTH : FROM 05/05/04 15:16 TO PERM B0905/05 E)AIR NAVIGATIONAL OBSTACLE SINGLE UNLIT WIND TURBINE FOLLOWING DETAILS: COL 1. LONGHILL (REF NUMBER TBN) COL 2. TURB S COL 3. 523426N 0000510E COL 4. 365 351 COL 5. NO UK AIP REFERS ENR 5-4-1-6 (23 DEC 04) COLUMN 1-5 OTH : FROM 05/03/29 14:43 TO 05/06/06 16:00 EST N0042/05 E)OBST LGT ON THE STEEL LATTICE TOWER TO THE NORTH OF THE HELICOPTER LANDING SITE AT RAF BRAMPTON IS UNLIT, HGT 130FT NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 13:35 TO 05/05/08 14:05 H0879/05 E) AUS 05-05-0141/957/AS1 AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY BBMF ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS 5200N 00044W (BLETCHLEY PARK, MILTON KEYNES) F)SFC G)2000FT AGL NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 12:55 TO 05/05/08 13:25 H0743/05 E)AUS 05-05-0063/810/AS3 AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY BBMF LANCASTER ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS 5224N 00005W (HUNTINGDON). F)SFC G)2000FT AGL NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 13:30 TO 05/05/08 14:00 H0691/05 E) AUS 05-05-0064/760/AS1 AIR DISPLAY. FLYPAST BY FORMATION OF BBMF ACFT WI 2NM RADIUS 5208N 00047W (STOKE GOLDINGTON, BUCKS) F)SFC G)2000FT AGL NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 12:45 TO 05/05/08 13:15 H0860/05 E) AUS 05-05-0016/938/AS2 FREEFALL TEAM PJE WI 2NM RADIUS 5201N 00013W (STOTFOLD MILL, NEAR HITCHEN, HERTS). DROP TIME 1300. HGT SUBJECT TO ATC CLEARANCE. F)SFC G)10000FT AGL NAVW: FROM 05/05/08 08:45 TO 05/05/08 20:15 H1002/05 E) AUS 05-05-0017/1088/AS5 KITE FLYING 2NM RADIUS 5208N 00025W (BEDFORD). F)SFC G)1500FT AGL NAVW: A)EGSU FROM 05/05/06 14:00 TO 05/05/08 17:00 H0647/05 D)MAY 06 1400-1730, 07-08 1200-1700 E) AUS 05-05-0015/717/AS1 AIR DISPLAY WI 3NM RADIUS 5205N 00008E (DUXFORD, CAMBS). AIC 13/2005 (MAUVE 138) REFERS. F)SFC G)4000FT AMSL NAVW: A)EGSU FROM 05/05/07 12:15 TO 05/05/08 17:00 J1705/05 D)1215-1700 E) AUS 05-05-0004/1066/DAPLC DUXFORD AIRSHOW. RESTRICTION OF FLYING REGULATIONS HAS BEEN MADE UNDER ARTICLE 85 OF THE ANO 2000. NO ACFT SHALL FLY WITHIN AREA BOUNDED BY CIRCLE RADIUS 2.2NM CENTRED AT 520527N 0000755E (DUXFORD) EXCEPT FLYING WITH PRIOR PERMISSION OF DUXFORD FLYING DISPLAY DIRECTOR OR IN THE SERVICE OF CAMBRIDGE POLICE. AIC 13/2005 (MAUVE 138) REFERS. F)SFC G)4000FT AMSL END. |
Well, I tried entering lat/long but kept getting 'syntax error'.....
Thanks anyway - it is indeed better than the previous system. I'd still prefer to be able to 'stick pins' in an electronic version of the CAA 1/2 mill chart to define my route. And to have drop-downs for the time and date. And to have the resulting NOTAMs displayed on a chart showing position and radius of activity where applicable. |
And you can have all those things, but not entirely for free: get yourself a copy of "Notam Plot" (free s/w from http://www.notamplot.flyer.co.uk/) and a subscription to Avbrief (free for "registered guests" for NOTAM in EGTT, EGPX, EGGX, subscription required for NOTAM from EISN, LFFF, LFRR) and you can see the NOTAMs plotted on the map.
Andy :ok: |
The sticking pins on the map idea is attractive but some of the NOTAM affecting your route will have their centres off your map. This is because they have a very large radius of influence (e.g. a long-range navaid u/s or a notification of a number of geographically separated restricted areas like nuclear sites).
Ian Fallon has done a good job with NotamPlot, helped by AvBrief providing the data feed. Peter Mundy and Olof Bakker have made a start with Navbox providing a smilar facility but last time I looked it still had a long way to go. And as for that "stupid arse-about-face way of entering the time and date", you can thank the inventors of the machine you fly for that. As the two bicycle mechanics from Dayton Ohio were American, ICAO chose their way of writing dates. You have to write it the same way for a flight plan so you may as well get used to it. Ditto for the route syntax by the way. ICAO indicators are hardly difficult to find, they are after all printed on your chart next to the a/d. a/d names are not unique worldwide and this is a resource with worldwide capability. If you put Manchester in do you mean EGCB (Manchester Barton) EGCC (Manchester International) EGCD (Manchester Woodford) or KMHT (Manchester, New Hampshire)? Try clicking the down arrow next to the box you need to fill in and you will get a search screen that allows you to fill in the name. Try sticking X in the ICAO code box on the search screen and you will get a list of dummy ICAO codes that have been created to cover UK a/d that do not have their own code. Lastly, spend half an hour reading the documentation, it's worth the effort. Mike |
Try sticking X in the ICAO code box on the search screen and you will get a list of dummy ICAO codes that have been created to cover UK a/d that do not have their own code. Under PIB Help there is a document called UK AIS Additional Locations which gives a list of the X codes (like XLOC for Locking) but I can't seem to use these in the Departure or Destination boxes.. jb |
jabberwok if that doesn't work for you it may be because when you set up your AIS account you selected "UK FIR only".
You need multiple FIR access to use the "X" codes. |
Ah.. Got it now.
I couldn't see how to alter the FIR limitation in the user settings so I had to create a new account. Fiddly but it now works. jb |
Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? That implies that the system is insufficiently intuitive. As is anything which is 'fiddly, but now works'......
Still, it will only improve with user feedback. And WTF is 'route syntax'? Plain English please, not geekspeak! Drop downs for time and date should be the norm - let the software translate that into ar$e-about-face flight plan date/times IF required. |
Hi BEagle,
Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? Anyd :ok: |
Why should it require half an hour to 'read the manual'? That implies that the system is insufficiently intuitive. If anything it implies there's a lot of information that can be filtered in a myriad different ways depending on what you want out of it - like any good toolset. Anyone who has bothered to get to grips with the interface has probably saved their "favorites" and can self brief in less time than it took to write this reply :D |
And WTF is 'route syntax'? Plain English please, not geekspeak! Syntax, noun, the grammatical arrangement of words in a sentence From the Latin syntaxis or the Greek suntaxis. In the case of the AIS website the arrangement of words in the route box (i.e. it's syntax) follows the same rules that apply to an ICAO Flight Plan Route. Acceptable Navaid Identifier eg: POL - Polehill VOR Airways Waypoint eg: FAWBO Radial & Distance from a Navaid eg: SAM180030 LAT & LONG 7 character eg: 54N001W LAT & LONG 11 character eg: 5430N00130W Airways Route: can be used if flying IFR on an ATS route NOT acceptable ICAO/IATA/AIS Airport Location Indicators Visual Reporting Points (VRP): Use LAT & LONG Remember to start the Route box/field with DCT and place DCT between Route points and finally DCT at the end. Alles klaar? Mike |
OK - But 'Enter Route in ICAO Flight Plan format' might be a simpler instruction. I do know what 'syntax' means, but I've never heard of it in the context of 'route syntax'.
Geek is a word in the new Oxford Dictionary. Suntaxis are "Cor blimey, peeps is wha' cousin Stavros drive tourists round Asbestos, Domestos, Argos and Pathos in, innit' mate"! Syntaxis - or even better, Sin taxis, sound much more fun. Shall now invent an imaginary 'square' route which will generate a NOTAM summary for my local area and save it as a 'favourite'. Danke! |
Don't do a square route, there's an easier way.
Pick two a/d with ICAO codes that straddle the area you want to brief for, i.e. the area you want to brief for sits in beween them. Use them as your departure and arrival a/d Draw a line between them and decide how much either side of this line you want the info for. Set this as your Narrow Route Width. For example up near the top left of the southern half mil is a microlight site at Otherton, it lies between Cosford and Tatenhill, which are around 20nm apart. set a narrow route width of 10nm and you've defined a 400 square mile box between them. http://mrc0001.users.btopenworld.com...ages/local.JPG If there are any aerodromes within the area that you want NOTAM for then set them as alternates. Fill in the Briefing id as something meaningful, e.g. Local. Any time you want to use it go to the Briefing Handbook and re-use it, it will be listed under the name you chose. Mike |
BEagle
Check your PM's - you have an invitation! Mike |
Theres a lot of critism on this thread. So I would like to be positive and say Thank You to the likes of Mike Cross and the gentleman who wrote the brilliant NotamPlot (whose name I've temporarily forgotten).
The situation is not perfect from the VFR/PPL standpoint. But it has been greatly enhanced from the position we were in before. We should be grateful to those who further the development of these systems for our benefit. |
Thanks Jimbo, Ian Fallon is the name you're groping for. He got one of the Flyer awards last year.
Mike |
Am I being a muppet? I'm told that the AIS site can do briefings covering other FIR's, but try as I might I just get the error "only EG locations are allowed" for all airfields and FIR's I enter.
Tried to do one for EGTR to LFAT the other day and ended up having to use AIS one to the coast and then an OLIVIA one. Any help much appreciated. Duncan |
It may be because when you set up your AIS account you selected "UK FIR only".
You need multiple FIR access. You cannot change your current access. You need a new logon. Anyone getting the feeling of deja vu? :) |
Muppet indeed! Thanks rustle sorted now.
Duncan |
Folks,
If you wish to change your account from UK only to UK and Foreign, could I suggest that you email the ais supervisor and request that yout account be changed rather than reregister. By doing it this way you can still keep all your prvious brieinfs in yourhandbook and you don't confuese yourself with having two passwords for two accounts. Regards Bletchleytugie |
This morning the Red Arrow flew into Biggin for a 'private' visit/display? When I try a narrow route brief starting at EGKB I dont seem to be able to get anything posted for this even if I try and back date the query. Am I driving it incorrectly or was it notamed?
MAF |
Max
I found B)05/05/14 09:45 UTC C)05/05/15 17:15 NAVW (H1003/05) E)AUS 05-05-0023/1089/AS1 AIR DISPLAY. AEROBATIC DISPLAYS WI 5NM RADIUS 5121N 00016E (BRANDS HATCH). POC ON THE DAY 07774 816942. AUS ACN 05-05-0023 REFERS. F)SFC G)2400FT AGL in under 10 secs on Notamcheck just now. BTW I don't have any connection with Notamcheck, I'm just having a mank on another thread. regards HnH |
H&H
I saw this but the dates are for the weekend? And I think that the Arrow are here... Saturday 14-May-05 The Ulster VE Day Airshow, Newtonards Northern Ireland Sunday 15-May-05 Enniskillen AIr Show Northern Ireland They were at Biggin this am as I had heard that egkb was effectively closed. Also Mrs Max texted me to say she saw them fly over. But the notam ? MAF |
Max hi
See what you mean. Missed that. What do you get if you ring 0500 354802 like we're supposed to everytime we fly? (not) regards HnH |
AIS info line reports a temporary restriction at Biggin earlier today 6nm 2400' from 10:25 to 10:57.
I was curious to see if I could specify a time in the past in the narrow brief? MAF |
Here's the NOTAM from the AIS website yesterday
J1680/05 A)EGKB B)0505121025 C)0505121057 E)AUS 05-05-0020/1035/AS1 TEMPORARY RESTRICTED AIRSPACE HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED UNDER ARTICLE 85 OF THE ANO 2000 FOR A RED ARROWS DISPLAY WI 6NM RAD 5120N 00002E (BIGGIN HILL)UP TO 2400FT AMSL. AIC 15/2005 (MAUVE 139) AND AUS CAN 05-05-0020 DATED 20 APRIL 05 REFER. F)SFC G)2400FT AMSL Generally speaking people can't travel back in time, so you cannot find NOTAMs from earlier unless they're still effective. Since this one expired at 10:57 and was not extended it disappeared from the briefings. Imagine the whining if it was still there and people had to read past it at 1500 :rolleyes: |
Mike Cross,
We fly up to 12 different sectors a day, sometimes more, not often on repetitive tracks. We often need to read the whole NOTAM brief for the UK. In an attempt to help us cut down wasted time, I requested about 9 months ago that airfields / ATZs included in NOTAM are actually named in para (e) rather than just indicated by their ICAO code letters in para (a). If they are not named, it means looking up what the airfield is. After over 30 years of flying, I still haven't memorised the minor ones. I was told that this would be "trialled" at the end of last year. It wasn't satisfactorily explained why it was difficult to implement, but the trial never seemed to happen in any event. Please can this be done? In the post above, the quoted NOTAM shows EGKB in para (a) and "Biggin Hill" in para (e) - so it CAN be done. I did know where EGKB is though! ;) |
ST
I'm not from AIS, just a PPL who has been working with them on some of the problems. Content of the E line is down to the originator of the NOTAM. AIS are not the originators, they just publish them. Nor are they policy making. That role is down to the CAA's Directorate of Airspace Policy. AIS is part of NATS, which is the agency CAA has licensed to provide the service. While AIS may suggest originators include the a/d name it won't go in there as of right unless CAA/DAP make a ruling to that effect. AIS also work to a set of policy rules known as OPADD (Operational Procedures for AIS Dynamic Data) OPADD is a European set of standards designed to comply with ICAO SARPS (Standards and Recommended Practices). As you will gather from all of this it is important that all AIS's adhere to common standards. Details of OPADD here. ICAO designators are preferred because they are unique while aerodrome names are not. If you fly repetitive sectors try naming them using the Briefing ID, then you can pull them straight out of the Briefing Handbook and re-use them. On the other hand if you work in a limited geographic area rather than the entire FIR then try defining a local area using the technique I've outlined earlier in this thread. Mike |
Mike,
Thanks for the reply and I now understand your involvement better. I have only re-discovered the thread this evening. My point is that NOTAMS are for aviators, not rule makers so why make it difficult because of some rule or other? Some NOTAM originaters DO supply the airfield name as well as the ICAO - so why can this not be added in all relevant cases? I note your advice but as i said, we DON'T often fly repetitive sectors. Unfortunately we need to trawl through the whole lot most days, sometimes both FIRs, hence my comment about not being able to memorise the locations from an ICAO code. We rarely get to sit down and plan a day's flying in advance, it is a "fluid" programme. Regards, ShyT |
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