Once upon a time, the "T" in the designator meant "Turbocharged". Then someone said it meant T-tail, and we have confusion.

Arrow 4 isn't much different from Arrow 1, 2 and 3 in performance. Arrow 4 is available with turbocharged engine, which makes a big difference - but you can't tell from the code if it is Turbo. Or can you?

Keef, I think the T for Turbo comes before the R?

So a PA28TR is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT is an Arrow 4. And a PA28TRT would, I presume, be a turbo Arrow 4?

FFF
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I've just done some research, and I'm completely wrong. Ok, not completely wrong, just a bit wrong.

The T for Turbo comes after the engine horsepower part. So a PA28R-201T is a turbo Arrow. A PA28RT-201 is an Arrow 4. And a PA28RT-201T is a turbo Arrow 4. I think!

FFF
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Bookworm

Thanks for that info. The PA28A certainly seems a broad church and in my experience has a difference in cruise speed of circa 20kts btween bottom and top models. Wonder if this is an issue for ATC or is a 90kt versus 110 cruise of little impact in real terms?

I notice that the PA32 is split into PA32, PA32R and PA32T (for the T tailed Lances), which makes sense.

The issue that I was trying to get across is that you have just 4 characters for an ICAO designator. I've no doubt that Piper calls it a PA28R-201T or a PA28RT-201 but for the FPL it's a P28R or P28T.

Your point was well made and understood.

My second post was made after following your link and reading the ICAO info on the AOPA site.

Thus the PA28A takes in the PA28-140 (90 kts) to the PA28-181 (110kts) and means a 20kt cruise variation, which the ATCO may or may not find difficult, whcih was the thrust of my question.

The PA32 range is split (by ICAO) into PA32, PA23R and PA32T, which as I said makes more sense to me, as those three sub types sit together pretty well.

Thanks

F3G

Is that a rule of thumb?

W

Returning somewhat belatedly to the original query, DB6 had it right. Certification of all Aztecs, from the Aztec 250 to the final model Turbo F, was 'grandfathered' on the Type Certificate of the PA-23 Apache. The official FAA-recognised designation of any Aztec is thus PA-23-250 (or -235 in the case of the Apache 235). Piper used factory serial nos. with 27- prefixes throughout Aztec production, presumably because the original Aztec 250 and Aztec B and the last Apaches 160s (G and H models) were on the line at the same time. ICAO designators aside, there is no such thing as a 'PA-27'.

TallDark&Handsome

Now that's interesting, because thumbs are not digits.

So I ask myself, would I rather have the p*ss taken out of me for some obvious typos or for talking nonsense.

Makes me think of Churchill and Lady Astor ;)

Not according to the Oxford Dictionary, which specifies fingers.

But if you want to quote a lesser source, good for you :O

Boys acting their shoe-sizes as usual...

Anybody now unclear on what a PA27 is? Time to go and find something else to play with perhaps?

:D

Charlie
x

Wow, I start a thread off & then turn my back for a week or two and.........:mad: :rolleyes:

Hehe, anyway thanks to everyone who contributed to the final answer that IN ACTUAL FACT THERE IS NO SUCH AEROPLANE CALLED A PA27

So the next time I hear some smart@rse waffling on the R/T about being a "know it all waffle waffle Pa27 etc...." I can think to myself WHAT A FC*KIN IDIOT ! :D :D :D

And before anyone jumps up to defend themselves or "others", Yes I do understand the worthy comments regarding the Aztecs ICAO code but at the end of the day an Aztec is a Pa23, always was & always will be :ok:


Neg G:D

-veG

I guess you can think what you want, but the reason that aircraft are described as PA27 has been very clearly and simply explained to you by a number of Aztec pilots and ATCOs.

If you don't understand the reasoning, fine, but I think that reflects your intellectual capabilities rather than those using the terminology.

W

WC :D

Hmmmmm I rest my case !:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Neg G:cool:

I fly a PA27 - S**t I mean PA23 - NO make that an Aztec (But mine looks like an Apache as everyone keeps telling me).

My point is DOES IT REALLY MATTER!!!

So long as the message is understood. I hear far worse R/T than this.

The FISO at Elstree will not hear of an Aztec being called a PA23 you will be on the receiving end of his infamous dressing down.

If your blood boils by a pilot calling an Aztec a PA27 then maybe a cockpit is not the place for you.