Air to air frequency?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Had some pillock yesterday who was attempting to chat to someone on 123.45 but had tuned the radio to Goodwood on 122.45 instead. Only getting the usual aerodrome RT calls in reply wasn't enough to stop Bloggs constantly trying get position reports from his mate and telling everbody what he wanted for lunch... 
But even the pros were doing it yesterday - as I was taxing to the hold, I heard "***, FL270, heading 010, blah blah" as someone tuned in to Goodwood information rather than London on 132.45
But even the pros were doing it yesterday - as I was taxing to the hold, I heard "***, FL270, heading 010, blah blah" as someone tuned in to Goodwood information rather than London on 132.45
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CARLISLE, UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybee one of us would like to try seeing if they can make a headset run in one of these things - if you can, fair play to you and don't forget to tell us all how it goes!
Radio's work by line of sight so a low powered tx in a built up area
would probably be picked up upto radius of 3-4Km.
It would certainly annoy the people that want to look important though.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Wales
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's the cool thing though - these things run on a licence exempt frequency. 418mhz. and if you are not above a city there is nothing to stop you!
even the ground staff at my aerodrome have these things - helps them keep in touch without useing 122.25. and they can use them as they see fit. (or not as the case may be!)
even above a city the nature of these radios - multiplex transmission with lots of sub channels means that it is very unlikely that someone else is going to get pissed
also; it's a free country - the normal R/T rules and regs DO NOT APPLY to these el cheepo trancievers.
WelshFlyer.
just as an afterthought; using such equipment is not all that different from gabbing on a moblile phone inflight, and lots of people do that. 'ts what said mobile phone headset adaptors are for!
Remember; they arn't certified for inflight use, but a hell of a lot of people do it though
WelshFlyer.
even the ground staff at my aerodrome have these things - helps them keep in touch without useing 122.25. and they can use them as they see fit. (or not as the case may be!)
even above a city the nature of these radios - multiplex transmission with lots of sub channels means that it is very unlikely that someone else is going to get pissed
also; it's a free country - the normal R/T rules and regs DO NOT APPLY to these el cheepo trancievers.
WelshFlyer.
just as an afterthought; using such equipment is not all that different from gabbing on a moblile phone inflight, and lots of people do that. 'ts what said mobile phone headset adaptors are for!
Remember; they arn't certified for inflight use, but a hell of a lot of people do it though
WelshFlyer.
Last edited by WelshFlyer; 4th Aug 2003 at 10:36.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi WF,
I suspect that it says somewhere in the ANO that you can only use approved radios in aircraft. Don't know the ANO verbatim but am sure it does.
Those who are intending to use these would be well adviced to check chapter and verse.
FD
I suspect that it says somewhere in the ANO that you can only use approved radios in aircraft. Don't know the ANO verbatim but am sure it does.
Those who are intending to use these would be well adviced to check chapter and verse.
FD
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Crowthorne
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe 118.00 is an air to air frequency read it in a book bought at the PFA rally a few year ago, can any one confirm.
The family radios are good but would need to be plumbed into your head set. Low power transmitters.
Mobile phones are not a good idea, can affect the avionics, also seeing a cell phone moving at over a hundred could trigger the shut down of the phone or impolite letters to you.
A cell phone in the air can affect the system by hitting multiple cells as well. They also transmit every 7 to 11 minutes.
Could be used by the CAA to track you, has been done by the police retrospectively, as the phone companies keep a record of what cells the phone has contacted.
Sobbering thought.
The family radios are good but would need to be plumbed into your head set. Low power transmitters.
Mobile phones are not a good idea, can affect the avionics, also seeing a cell phone moving at over a hundred could trigger the shut down of the phone or impolite letters to you.
A cell phone in the air can affect the system by hitting multiple cells as well. They also transmit every 7 to 11 minutes.
Could be used by the CAA to track you, has been done by the police retrospectively, as the phone companies keep a record of what cells the phone has contacted.
Sobbering thought.
PPRuNe's favourite BABE!!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: under the duvet!!!!
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If certain airfields with A/G were to share frequencies, that would free up some frequencies.
If you think popham and bournemouth hear each others calls sometimes, then edinburgh and amsterdam will amaze. Under certain weather conditions, aircraft inbound to edi can pick up interference with amsterdam. Seems we both share an approach frequency!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: North Wales
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
People useing mobile 'phones on airfields is exceedingly anoying, if not damned right dangerous.
Every time someone starts gabbing on one of these liabilitys, you get a howling screem of binary comong through whatever the you're comm radio is tuned to - sounds like the effect created when you play one of those old data tapes from 80's computers in an audio deck.
Mobile phones are very useful, but NOT REPEAT NOT ON AIRFIELDS.
WelshFlyer.
Every time someone starts gabbing on one of these liabilitys, you get a howling screem of binary comong through whatever the you're comm radio is tuned to - sounds like the effect created when you play one of those old data tapes from 80's computers in an audio deck.
Mobile phones are very useful, but NOT REPEAT NOT ON AIRFIELDS.
WelshFlyer.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
Mobile phones in aircraft? Whatever next! 
I am now waiting for a police speeding ticket due to my wife leaving her phone (registered in my name) switched on all the way to Greece a couple of weeks back - in a B737. When she landed, to her horror, she had text messages welcoming her to Switzerland and a couple of other countries on route. Oops!
BTW, I thought that folks used 121.5 for chat, giving the Captain's welcome passenger chat etc (BA out of EGCC really had bad finger trouble that day; it went on for about 2 minutes, we got the full works).
Seriously though. If a formation wants to talk to each other, they could adopt the military procedures. e.g. Use a relevant formation callsign such as the lead aircraft's registration plus "Combine", nominate a leader and brief properly. The latter is an ANO requirement anyway. Leader only does the r/t, giving details of each individual aircraft to ATC as required.
Call number 2 across to the next ATC freq. by transmitting, for example, "G-ABCD combine, 123.4, 123.4 - GO!" Number 2 ought to find this no great surprise if the trip has been properly briefed with regard to diversion airfields etc. Use London Info for longer legs away from airfields, or use the nearest field for Flight Information where available. And obviously keep the chat to the minimum, no nattering on someone's frequency, keep that for the bar.
You might feel a bit self-conscious but it works.
I am now waiting for a police speeding ticket due to my wife leaving her phone (registered in my name) switched on all the way to Greece a couple of weeks back - in a B737. When she landed, to her horror, she had text messages welcoming her to Switzerland and a couple of other countries on route. Oops!
BTW, I thought that folks used 121.5 for chat, giving the Captain's welcome passenger chat etc (BA out of EGCC really had bad finger trouble that day; it went on for about 2 minutes, we got the full works).
Seriously though. If a formation wants to talk to each other, they could adopt the military procedures. e.g. Use a relevant formation callsign such as the lead aircraft's registration plus "Combine", nominate a leader and brief properly. The latter is an ANO requirement anyway. Leader only does the r/t, giving details of each individual aircraft to ATC as required.
Call number 2 across to the next ATC freq. by transmitting, for example, "G-ABCD combine, 123.4, 123.4 - GO!" Number 2 ought to find this no great surprise if the trip has been properly briefed with regard to diversion airfields etc. Use London Info for longer legs away from airfields, or use the nearest field for Flight Information where available. And obviously keep the chat to the minimum, no nattering on someone's frequency, keep that for the bar.
You might feel a bit self-conscious but it works.
After years & years of pilots using 123.45 as their air-to-air frequency (at least 20 years ie at least since I learnt to fly), the Oz authority finally went with the flow & promulgated as the official air-to-air frequency.
Peoples' Champion!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO, if people need an air to air frequency for formation flying etc, then they ain't doing it properly! Those who NEED an Air/Air frequency normally get one! Those who just want to compare notes really dont need one..
Air to air frequencies are essential, so what if they turn into friendly banter? We've all experienced non CAP 413 R/T in our time. you know: "Congrats on your first Solo" etc etc - if one day they save a life - "Jeff Look out, mate" - then so be it. To condem them on these grounds alone is naive in the extreme.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Gone.........for good this time.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Big Hilly,
Just because my profile says 'Barnstormer extraordinaire', doesnt mean to say that I need an Air/Air freq to chat to one & all, and by your inference, mean that I know nuffink about trans-atlantic oceanic waffle! Maybe I just prefer to do my barnstorming in silence? Thats the beauty of Pprune, you can be whoever you want to be. Look at it this way. How many profiles say 'ATPL' or 'Instructor', yet the views that flow from certain people would be fit only to come from a 5 year old child!
GTOTO,
118.00 has been used by certain 'teams' in the past, and some spotters books do say that it's an official air/air freq, but I think they speak with forked tongue.....
Heard a classic tale of woe once. 2 air display teams on the same (unauthorised) frequency. The leader of one says "Echelon port, go" and 50 miles away, the No.2 of the other team, also displaying, gently slides into an almost inevitable collision with his No.3! Fortunately, he didnt.
Have a nice day
Just because my profile says 'Barnstormer extraordinaire', doesnt mean to say that I need an Air/Air freq to chat to one & all, and by your inference, mean that I know nuffink about trans-atlantic oceanic waffle! Maybe I just prefer to do my barnstorming in silence? Thats the beauty of Pprune, you can be whoever you want to be. Look at it this way. How many profiles say 'ATPL' or 'Instructor', yet the views that flow from certain people would be fit only to come from a 5 year old child!
GTOTO,
118.00 has been used by certain 'teams' in the past, and some spotters books do say that it's an official air/air freq, but I think they speak with forked tongue.....
Heard a classic tale of woe once. 2 air display teams on the same (unauthorised) frequency. The leader of one says "Echelon port, go" and 50 miles away, the No.2 of the other team, also displaying, gently slides into an almost inevitable collision with his No.3! Fortunately, he didnt.
Have a nice day
Peoples' Champion!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Zlin526,
An excellent post.
In which case, Sir, you will know only too well the importance of such 'Air/Air waffle'
An excellent post.
Just because my profile says 'Barnstormer extraordinaire', doesnt mean to say that I need an Air/Air freq to chat to one & all, and by your inference, mean that I know nuffink about trans-atlantic oceanic waffle!
Last edited by Big Hilly; 11th Aug 2003 at 07:42.
Oops!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO, if people need an air to air frequency for formation flying etc, then they ain't doing it properly!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not a million miles from EGTF
Age: 68
Posts: 1,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air to Air Frequency
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, if people need an air to air frequency for formation flying etc, then they ain't doing it properly! Those who NEED an Air/Air frequency normally get one! Those who just want to compare notes really dont need one..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite - its because of not doing it right we might need to communicate dreckly with each other and not via an ATCO, and how else to you learn to do it properly
In one notable instance a formation I was in lost the leader - he forgot to look to see where we all were and ploughed on regardless. That was his mistake and there was no way of calling him back except via the ATCO
There is a lot of dross on 123.45 but a dedicated frequency is useful
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMHO, if people need an air to air frequency for formation flying etc, then they ain't doing it properly! Those who NEED an Air/Air frequency normally get one! Those who just want to compare notes really dont need one..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quite - its because of not doing it right we might need to communicate dreckly with each other and not via an ATCO, and how else to you learn to do it properly
In one notable instance a formation I was in lost the leader - he forgot to look to see where we all were and ploughed on regardless. That was his mistake and there was no way of calling him back except via the ATCO
There is a lot of dross on 123.45 but a dedicated frequency is useful
Mess Your Passage
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Temporarily Unaware......
Age: 25
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To lighten........
I remember once when i was having FUN in an aeroplane which once upon a time most people did now its all got anal, anyway....
Meeting a mate to share a nice evening flight togther down to the coast from a london field great wx etc his initial call on 123.45 was 123.42 EGTF
P1 " You there big boy?
EGTF : " Station calling Big boy ?"
Keep it safe and fun.........
I remember once when i was having FUN in an aeroplane which once upon a time most people did now its all got anal, anyway....
Meeting a mate to share a nice evening flight togther down to the coast from a london field great wx etc his initial call on 123.45 was 123.42 EGTF
P1 " You there big boy?
EGTF : " Station calling Big boy ?"
Keep it safe and fun.........
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allocate a frequency, but make accessible only by pre paid credit card subscription at £1 per minute, (I am reliable informed by the head honcho from our knobs and spanners department that this is possible), this is only way R/T will be used in the way it designed to be used - stand up - speak up - shut up.
