A Close Shave

[Aussie Andy]

FFF: Snap! Was thinking this, will give it a try

[englishal]

Its all very well to say VFR flight is "see and be seen" BUT its the time you DONT see the other aircraft that is the problem. I have come close 3 times as far as I remember, first was on my solo X/C, flying along scanning the sky and suddenly this old war bird flew past, opposite direction about 200m off to starboard same altitude. I hope he saw me becasue I didn't see him even thought I was being incredibly vigilant [was in a radar shadow as well which didn't help]. Second time was rejoining at Long Beach, another aircraft was joining as well, the controller was screaming at me the traffic info, I couldn't see it at all. The controller was screaming at the other aircraft, and he couldn't see me. In the end the controller gave me vectors and the other aircraft appeared out of a blind spot less than 100m away, and I guess we appeared out of his blind spot. Third time was climbing out of Long Beach again, just departed and picking up VFR flight following, and was issued a traffic alert, traffic less than 0.25 mile, same altitude coming straight for us. We took avoiding action by decending rapidly [he should have turned right] as we didn't feel it safe to turn. The scary thing was that in avoiding this aircraft we flew through the wake of another unseen aircraft which must have been in that spot less than a few minutes before.

In all these experiences we were flying VFR, scanning the sky and not playing with gadgets in the cockpit. These other aircraft just weren't seen, not through lack of trying. Maybe all GA aircraft should be painted a high vis colour or something, or tow a banner with a big arrow pointing towards the aircraft

The scary thing is that in the UK you are perfectly allowed to fly around in cloud [with IMC rating] with no form of radar service at all, and no flight plan,.....sends shivers down my spine ! In fact Radar services are 'discouraged' by a lot of people I've talked to, especially in good weather. I would not dream of flying in the LA Basin without a radar service even in good weather, you would have to be mad or suicidal in my opinion.

Rgds
EA

[FWA NATCA]

englishal,

A friend of mine had his Cessna 180 painted day glow yellow with a blue strip because of a near miss that scared the you know what out of him.

I can't believe that some pilots would encourage others to avoid using VFR Radar flight following, maybe they are working on being bold pilots. We are sitting in front of that scope to provide a service, and VFR advisories (when traffic permits) are part of our job.

Safety is a team effort and controllers are valuable part of that team.

Mike
NATCA FWA

[Aussie Andy]

I can't believe that some pilots would encourage others to avoid using VFR Radar flight following

Who said that?

[englishal]

Not VFR flight follwing in the states, but a RIS in the UK. Every time I've gone up with an instructor and suggested getting a RIS [radar information service] I've been told to get a FIS [flight information service for those who don't know......next to useless in my opinion unless you want to know the altimeter setting]......"thery're too busy"...."they won't give us one anyway"......"we're VFR and responsible for our own seperation"...."they're miserable b**tards"...etc....[probably opened a can of worms here ]. Ca't fault the US system though, best in the world.

I think Black is meant to be a good colour for 'high' visibility in the air for some reason [unless at night I suppose], I remember reading that Red cars are involved in the most accidents or something...

Right enough drunk ppruning, I'm trying to give it up

Cheers
EA

[AlanM]

....."thery're too busy"...."they won't give us one anyway"......"we're VFR and responsible for our own seperation"...."they're miserable b**tards"

too true!!

As much as we try to help on 132.7/119.9 we are not a LARS unit and as such are not staffed to provide Radar services outside CAS.

Your instructor speaks many a wise word. Esp the miserable b**tards bit!

Seriously, we don't have time to give a service most of the time. When the vis is 30km+ do you really need one?

It isn't really helped by aircraft calling for a service when routeing Elstree to Southend via LAM and the vis is 30km+.

Have I missed something but what is wrong with the see and be seen principal of VFR flight?

[englishal]

Knew I shouldn't have drunk all that red wine last night

what is wrong with the see and be seen principal of VFR flight

Nothing in theory, but sometimes especially in busy airspace you just DONT see all the traffic, not through lack of trying.

I'm sure you're not "miserable b**tards" at all, I think he was just generalizing that sometimes its not even worth asking as you know the respone you'll get [especially from certain facilities].

Cheers
EA