Is 'pen and paper' GA flying actually better and safer than using GPS?
Join Date: Mar 2002
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IO540
Yes it was a Garmin 195 - never happened before - but if it happens again it will have to go.We do have ayounger handheld but I like the 195. The panel mount is a very elderly 100 - but works fine. Saving up for a 430 or 530!
Yes it was a Garmin 195 - never happened before - but if it happens again it will have to go.We do have ayounger handheld but I like the 195. The panel mount is a very elderly 100 - but works fine. Saving up for a 430 or 530!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
The GPS is a tool and nothing more. It will not replace proper well thought out planning. Do the planning on the charts at home. Work it all out and have a good "PLOG" ready to hand. This will of course give you an idea of the terrain, danger/restricted/CTA areas and you'll get an idea of the fuel required.
Now you blast off and in conjunction with good VFR navigating, using the navaids and the GPS you should have a nice pleasant trip.
Quite often I fly without a GPS. It certainly isn't dangerous. It's good to keep the original IR skills up to speed. The GPS just makes it easier. (Also saves the boss money in fuel)
Now you blast off and in conjunction with good VFR navigating, using the navaids and the GPS you should have a nice pleasant trip.
Quite often I fly without a GPS. It certainly isn't dangerous. It's good to keep the original IR skills up to speed. The GPS just makes it easier. (Also saves the boss money in fuel)
Join Date: May 2001
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In my view the American GPS is extremely unlikely to fail.
On the subject of CAS dB's, I use Memory Map charts on a Casio Cassiopeia, and as the charts are electronic representations [scans] of the official CAA charts, the CAS boundaries are accurate and in my view are accurate enough to navigate CAS by. I've been wary of doing this but in all the 'tests' I've carried out they seem to be 100% accurate. I wouldn't trust a stand alone MM [moving map] GPS to keep me clear in the UK, though in the US where most of these dB's are compiled I wouldn't be so sceptical. I bought Jeppesen Flightstar VFR a few years ago, and the number of errors in the Nav data compared to the paper chart was frightening. Its ok as a rough planning app, to plan the route, but if you didn't cross check with the 'official' chart you'd find yourself in trouble. CAS was wrongly labeled [C instead of D for example, B for A etc], almost as if the designers had tried to convert the UK CAS system into the American system. Flightstar in the US is accurate though. Maybe the UK version has improved now, I haven't used it for a while, but this problem seems to be the same one as is often seen on MM GPS dB's, US CAS is accurate, UK CAS is innacurate some of the time.
Cheers
EA
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redsnail,
The GPS is a tool and nothing more. It will not replace proper well thought out planning. Do the planning on the charts at home.
Charts are also just a tool and nothing more. Plenty of people don't look at the chart until they get into the plane. Plenty of people don't even bother doing that. Are they safe? They can be, but not as often when a student pilot.
Quite often I fly without a GPS. It certainly isn't dangerous. It's good to keep the original IR skills up to speed. The GPS just makes it easier. (Also saves the boss money in fuel)
I'm not sure IR navigation skills are all that relevant to VFR pilots, VFR pilots are encouraged to keep their eyes outside the cockpit. It's also a lot easier planning and flying a x-country when under IFR. IMO.
The GPS is a tool and nothing more. It will not replace proper well thought out planning. Do the planning on the charts at home.
Charts are also just a tool and nothing more. Plenty of people don't look at the chart until they get into the plane. Plenty of people don't even bother doing that. Are they safe? They can be, but not as often when a student pilot.
Quite often I fly without a GPS. It certainly isn't dangerous. It's good to keep the original IR skills up to speed. The GPS just makes it easier. (Also saves the boss money in fuel)
I'm not sure IR navigation skills are all that relevant to VFR pilots, VFR pilots are encouraged to keep their eyes outside the cockpit. It's also a lot easier planning and flying a x-country when under IFR. IMO.
Join Date: May 2002
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Let's simplify it: GPS is excellent. Use it by all means once you're able to navigate by DR. When you can do this, the GPS will help you get from point A to point B on the map - and if you throw in VORs/DMEs/ADFs/DR you're very unlikely to get lost!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
VORTIME,
couldn't agree with you more. It is excellent.
Slim slag,
If VFR pilots are encouraged to look out the window, then why have a GPS? Oh... yeah, they also look inside too.
I think you missed my point. The GPS is fantastic however, I don't want my basic IR or even VFR skills to deteriorate because I use a GPS.
If people aren't looking at a chart untill they get into the aircraft, why? What's wrong with their airmanship? We are taught to plan a flight. Why do some folk forget that after their licence and rely solely on an electronic box that will take you directly to where you told it to go. (Whether it's right or wrong)
Has the incidence of inadvertant CTA penetrations increased? If so, is it the over reliance on the "GO TO" button?
Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the accuracy and ease of the GPS. However, it's use shouldn't be instead of planning.
couldn't agree with you more. It is excellent.
Slim slag,
If VFR pilots are encouraged to look out the window, then why have a GPS? Oh... yeah, they also look inside too.
I think you missed my point. The GPS is fantastic however, I don't want my basic IR or even VFR skills to deteriorate because I use a GPS.
If people aren't looking at a chart untill they get into the aircraft, why? What's wrong with their airmanship? We are taught to plan a flight. Why do some folk forget that after their licence and rely solely on an electronic box that will take you directly to where you told it to go. (Whether it's right or wrong)
Has the incidence of inadvertant CTA penetrations increased? If so, is it the over reliance on the "GO TO" button?
Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the accuracy and ease of the GPS. However, it's use shouldn't be instead of planning.
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I don't want my basic IR or even VFR skills to deteriorate because I use a GPS.
Cheers
EA
Join Date: Aug 2002
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It'll come in Europe soon...
It is already here. Your flight plan can be simplified to XYZ dct...and thats it
Of course if you're using airways it can still be, say, EGLK DCT CPT/G1/BCN DCT EGFF - how you find CPT/G1/BCN is up to you because ATC and Eurocontrol don't care if you're using VORs or GPS to find the beacons...
It is already here. Your flight plan can be simplified to XYZ dct...and thats it
Of course if you're using airways it can still be, say, EGLK DCT CPT/G1/BCN DCT EGFF - how you find CPT/G1/BCN is up to you because ATC and Eurocontrol don't care if you're using VORs or GPS to find the beacons...
PPRuNe Handmaiden
EA,
I've actually done it already. I used to use a GPS approved for sole navigation in Australia (special conditions and approvals) as well as a GPS as primary navigational aid too. Even done GPS NPA approaches in Australia.
Any way, we are getting away from the original topic. GPS is great, but it can't replace good planning.
I've actually done it already. I used to use a GPS approved for sole navigation in Australia (special conditions and approvals) as well as a GPS as primary navigational aid too. Even done GPS NPA approaches in Australia.
Any way, we are getting away from the original topic. GPS is great, but it can't replace good planning.
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redsnail,
I'm not saying you should not plan your flight, that would be incredibly foolish and probably illegal. What I am saying is that in some circumstances there is no need to plan it on a chart at home.
I think GPS can make your planning even better! It's a tool, use it when it makes sense and when it helps.
I think I did miss your IR point. I agree, reliance on a hand held GPS is bad, I've noticed my skills deteriorate, so I reviewed my use of the tool. Sometimes it is definitely the best way to navigate when VFR, for instance when flying the narrow corridors over the Grand Canyon. Use the tools which make sense when they make sense and you have a better chance of staying alive.
I'm not saying you should not plan your flight, that would be incredibly foolish and probably illegal. What I am saying is that in some circumstances there is no need to plan it on a chart at home.
I think GPS can make your planning even better! It's a tool, use it when it makes sense and when it helps.
I think I did miss your IR point. I agree, reliance on a hand held GPS is bad, I've noticed my skills deteriorate, so I reviewed my use of the tool. Sometimes it is definitely the best way to navigate when VFR, for instance when flying the narrow corridors over the Grand Canyon. Use the tools which make sense when they make sense and you have a better chance of staying alive.
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What I am saying is that in some circumstances there is no need to plan it on a chart at home.
Before you walk you need to crawl and before you run you need to walk. Sometime short cuts are not useful and should not be welcomed. See my first reply at the beginning of the thread.
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AC-DC,
I couldn't agree with you more, but if you look at my first reply you'll see I don't think shortcuts apply to student pilots. Actually I don't think shortcuts apply to more experienced pilots either, but then it all depends on what you call a shortcut.
I couldn't agree with you more, but if you look at my first reply you'll see I don't think shortcuts apply to student pilots. Actually I don't think shortcuts apply to more experienced pilots either, but then it all depends on what you call a shortcut.
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The reason that a hand held GPS "just switches off" is likely to be tarnishing of the battery contacts. This results in momentary disconnection even when the contacts are tightly pressed to the battery cells. Strangely, GPS software does not seem to be designed to withstand this highly predictable event.
This contamination is usually the result of leakage of vapour or even liquid from defective batteries and is an argument in favour of buying premium brands, which even so can still leak. (Rechargeable batteries are a false economy because they have vents to relieve pressure).
The only real fix is contact replacement, but a short term substitute is a fibre glass pencil available from hobby shops and electronics suppliers used to burnish the metal (and the batteries).
In flight, removing the batteries and burnishing them against some suitable cloth like your trousers is likely to help.
If you get this problem once, you will get it again, possibly at a really inconvenient moment!
This contamination is usually the result of leakage of vapour or even liquid from defective batteries and is an argument in favour of buying premium brands, which even so can still leak. (Rechargeable batteries are a false economy because they have vents to relieve pressure).
The only real fix is contact replacement, but a short term substitute is a fibre glass pencil available from hobby shops and electronics suppliers used to burnish the metal (and the batteries).
In flight, removing the batteries and burnishing them against some suitable cloth like your trousers is likely to help.
If you get this problem once, you will get it again, possibly at a really inconvenient moment!
Join Date: May 2001
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Thanks for that David, I just cleaned up the battery contacts and replaced the batteries and it seems fine again. This happened ages ago to my GPS II+, and I couldn't get it to work at all so I gave up. I was having a clear up and was about to bin it when I did what you suggested and low and behold it works fine now!.....I thought it was ******ed, now I have 2 backup GPS's
EA
EA
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Battery contacts do fatigue and may need to be bent back up after a while to make a good contact.
Rechargeable batteries are best avoided in any "backup" product because they usually self-discharge after 1-2 months, so they are likely to be flat right when you need them.
Regarding software design, I am afraid that a lot of avionics is still in the 1970s. Garmin handhelds for example don't contain a hardware watchdog timer (cost: 50p) and some are known to crash and freeze up occassionally... I once discussed this with a Garmin engineer and he gave me some reasons for them not using a watchdog (e.g. the time to re-acquire a fix after a watchdog reset) but all of them were easy to solve and have been solved elsewhere.
Rechargeable batteries are best avoided in any "backup" product because they usually self-discharge after 1-2 months, so they are likely to be flat right when you need them.
Regarding software design, I am afraid that a lot of avionics is still in the 1970s. Garmin handhelds for example don't contain a hardware watchdog timer (cost: 50p) and some are known to crash and freeze up occassionally... I once discussed this with a Garmin engineer and he gave me some reasons for them not using a watchdog (e.g. the time to re-acquire a fix after a watchdog reset) but all of them were easy to solve and have been solved elsewhere.
