RAF Ex "Clean Hunter" NOTAM
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RAF Ex "Clean Hunter" NOTAM
Also on the NOTAM I front I saw this one today.
To save you the hassle, If you plot the region you get all of the UK South and East of nearish to Inverness(yes in Scotland) up to FL240 for the next ELEVEN days.
Now I am ever keen to react appropriately to NOTAMs but this one's location is so vast whilst its implications so big (I would not know how to take avoiding action if I saw 40 a/c were coming straight at me) - I don't know what I am supposed to do to react to this.
Obviously keep a good look-out at all times, but that’s what is expected of me anyway. I admit I have not called the number given, but do they expect all pilots to do this each day to find out more precisely where the exercise might be that day - would they not become overloaded with calls?
So
1) any views on the effectiveness of this NOTAM and appropriate response of this.
2) also for my info what does "AAR, AEW and Jamming (what)" mean - I happen to know Chaff. Non of these are listed in the NOTAM abreviation section.
3)Anyone know what "ACN 03-06-0001 DATED 11 JUN 03" is and where I can get it?
D&O
PS I've got nothing against the RAF having big exercises, but surely if they are going to fly that many a/c in formation, we need a bit of a better location fix?
NAVW: FROM 03/06/23 07:00 TO 03/07/03 16:00 H3386/03
E) (MIL REF) AUS 03-06-0003/1790/KL
EX CLEAN HUNTER 03. LARGE FORMATIONS OF UP TO 40 FIXED WING ACFT
WILL OPERATE IN AN AREA BOUNDED BY 5000N 00400W-5700N 00400W-5700N
00200E-5430N 00432E-5130N 00200E-5107N 00200E-5100N 00128E-5040N
00128E-5000N 00015W-ORIGIN. OFFENSIVE, DEFENSIVE AND SUPPORTING
AIR OPERATIONS WILL TAKE PLACE. AAR, AEW, JAMMING AND CHAFF RELEASE
CAN BE EXPECTED. ACN 03-06-0001 DATED 11 JUN 03 REFERS. CONTACT
CAOC 9, 01494461461 EXT 2157/2714.
F)SFC G)FL240
E) (MIL REF) AUS 03-06-0003/1790/KL
EX CLEAN HUNTER 03. LARGE FORMATIONS OF UP TO 40 FIXED WING ACFT
WILL OPERATE IN AN AREA BOUNDED BY 5000N 00400W-5700N 00400W-5700N
00200E-5430N 00432E-5130N 00200E-5107N 00200E-5100N 00128E-5040N
00128E-5000N 00015W-ORIGIN. OFFENSIVE, DEFENSIVE AND SUPPORTING
AIR OPERATIONS WILL TAKE PLACE. AAR, AEW, JAMMING AND CHAFF RELEASE
CAN BE EXPECTED. ACN 03-06-0001 DATED 11 JUN 03 REFERS. CONTACT
CAOC 9, 01494461461 EXT 2157/2714.
F)SFC G)FL240
Now I am ever keen to react appropriately to NOTAMs but this one's location is so vast whilst its implications so big (I would not know how to take avoiding action if I saw 40 a/c were coming straight at me) - I don't know what I am supposed to do to react to this.
Obviously keep a good look-out at all times, but that’s what is expected of me anyway. I admit I have not called the number given, but do they expect all pilots to do this each day to find out more precisely where the exercise might be that day - would they not become overloaded with calls?
So
1) any views on the effectiveness of this NOTAM and appropriate response of this.
2) also for my info what does "AAR, AEW and Jamming (what)" mean - I happen to know Chaff. Non of these are listed in the NOTAM abreviation section.
3)Anyone know what "ACN 03-06-0001 DATED 11 JUN 03" is and where I can get it?
D&O
PS I've got nothing against the RAF having big exercises, but surely if they are going to fly that many a/c in formation, we need a bit of a better location fix?
Join Date: Apr 2003
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down&out,
AEW = Airbourne Early Warning, ie AWACS type aircraft,
AAR = Air to Air Refuelling, I believe the RAF use VC10s & Tristars,
I would think the above would normally occur at higher altitudes, but I am sure someone will now correct me....
Jamming usually refers to radar, but also radio coms & GPS in this day & age, though I would expect that would have been mentioned specificly if it was likely to affect civil aviation.
Appears to be a general NOTAM as you would get for any major Military Exercise in the UK.
Regards, SD..
AEW = Airbourne Early Warning, ie AWACS type aircraft,
AAR = Air to Air Refuelling, I believe the RAF use VC10s & Tristars,
I would think the above would normally occur at higher altitudes, but I am sure someone will now correct me....
Jamming usually refers to radar, but also radio coms & GPS in this day & age, though I would expect that would have been mentioned specificly if it was likely to affect civil aviation.
Appears to be a general NOTAM as you would get for any major Military Exercise in the UK.
Regards, SD..
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Clean Hunter
The exact locations and routings are usually chosen on the day, depending on weather and what particular training patterns are required. That call willl usually be made at about 0700Z, hence the generalised and vague area in the advance NOTAM.
In addition to ourselves, the average pilot, remember that air traffickers will also be interested in advance notice of this sort of thing. At least when it all kicks off. they'll know what they're looking at and have some idea how long it will last. They can pass this sort of information to you and I when pootling towards the 40+ aircraft.
The reason why AEW, AAR and Jamming are mentioned is their effect on air traffic services.
Aircraft under AEW control cannot be coordinated; they have difficulty stretching the landline to a B707 at 30,000'!
Most AAR takes place around 20,000' and usually somewhere close to the Advisory Routes over Scotland. AAR is tricky from the control side of things, as the formations are unwieldy and diffcult to manoeuvre at close ranges.
Exercise jamming only affects specified UHF frequencies and military radars. While this doesn't affect you directly, the fast jets may not be receiving full traffic information, and the fighter controllers may not be seeing all traffic - personnally I'd stay away, having seen it from both sides!
At least if you up there and talking to air traffic, mention Clean Hunter and they should be able to tell you where it is at any given time.
Hope that helps
AA
In addition to ourselves, the average pilot, remember that air traffickers will also be interested in advance notice of this sort of thing. At least when it all kicks off. they'll know what they're looking at and have some idea how long it will last. They can pass this sort of information to you and I when pootling towards the 40+ aircraft.
The reason why AEW, AAR and Jamming are mentioned is their effect on air traffic services.
Aircraft under AEW control cannot be coordinated; they have difficulty stretching the landline to a B707 at 30,000'!
Most AAR takes place around 20,000' and usually somewhere close to the Advisory Routes over Scotland. AAR is tricky from the control side of things, as the formations are unwieldy and diffcult to manoeuvre at close ranges.
Exercise jamming only affects specified UHF frequencies and military radars. While this doesn't affect you directly, the fast jets may not be receiving full traffic information, and the fighter controllers may not be seeing all traffic - personnally I'd stay away, having seen it from both sides!
At least if you up there and talking to air traffic, mention Clean Hunter and they should be able to tell you where it is at any given time.
Hope that helps
AA
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The exercise areas extend from Southern Germany to Denmark and from the United Kingdom to mid-Poland
Nato Website
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As ever - great answers from PPRuNers(I've read alot more than just this post) - so Skydriller, AA & Vedeneyev thanks for your info.
At least I understand what happening a bit more and the NATO link suggests there will be little flying at weekends.
I'll aim to keep clear of the low fly zones - if only I had the option to get in the way at 20,000'
Cheers
D&O
At least I understand what happening a bit more and the NATO link suggests there will be little flying at weekends.
I'll aim to keep clear of the low fly zones - if only I had the option to get in the way at 20,000'
Cheers
D&O
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Just bye the way, there were four Canadian F/A-18s at Twenthe Air Base open day in Holland last weekend, bearing stickers proclaiming 'Clean Hunter, Aalborg, Denmark'. They came all the way from Cold Lake Alberta.
They will be at the Zeltweg Austria open day this weekend, then its off home, not via RIAT.
I'm sure www.scramble.nl will have some photos of the participants in due course.
They will be at the Zeltweg Austria open day this weekend, then its off home, not via RIAT.
I'm sure www.scramble.nl will have some photos of the participants in due course.
