Private and IR
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Private and IR
I went to my flying club today, who do all manner of flight training, and said "I want to convert my FAA IR to JAA" and they said "sure, you can do it by the 15 hr route". But then the examiner came back and said that a private IR is no more
, one won't be issued. To get an IR now, whether converting or doing one from scratch it appears that I have to take the CPL ground exams, the CPL GFT and hence get a CPL. Not to mention the fact that I would need a class 1 medical. So as you can imagine I said bollo*ks to that idea....
Something interesting though, apparently the JAA IWR is in the pipeline. I was advised to make sure I kept my IMC rating current as existing IMC holders will have grandfather rights.....I thought the IWR had died a death before it even got off the ground, but the person I spoke to was adamant that one would be appearing soon.....
Anyone know anything about this??
Cheers
EA
, one won't be issued. To get an IR now, whether converting or doing one from scratch it appears that I have to take the CPL ground exams, the CPL GFT and hence get a CPL. Not to mention the fact that I would need a class 1 medical. So as you can imagine I said bollo*ks to that idea....Something interesting though, apparently the JAA IWR is in the pipeline. I was advised to make sure I kept my IMC rating current as existing IMC holders will have grandfather rights.....I thought the IWR had died a death before it even got off the ground, but the person I spoke to was adamant that one would be appearing soon.....
Anyone know anything about this??
Cheers
EA
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The Club have got it wrong on both counts.
Firstly, adding an IR to a JAA PPL is no problem. The exams you take are very similar to the CPL/ATPL exams, but that was always the case. You can either enroll on a course for these, or you can distance learn. Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry have such a course. The IR Flight Test is substantially the same whether you are adding the IR to a PPL or CPL.
The IWR (Instrument Weather Rating), in fact pre-dates JAR, and was an attempt to come up with something similar to an IMC rating, but with rather wider acceptance. It proved to be too much of a bridge to cross, and is now very dead. There are no attempts being made to bring it back either.
2D
Firstly, adding an IR to a JAA PPL is no problem. The exams you take are very similar to the CPL/ATPL exams, but that was always the case. You can either enroll on a course for these, or you can distance learn. Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry have such a course. The IR Flight Test is substantially the same whether you are adding the IR to a PPL or CPL.
The IWR (Instrument Weather Rating), in fact pre-dates JAR, and was an attempt to come up with something similar to an IMC rating, but with rather wider acceptance. It proved to be too much of a bridge to cross, and is now very dead. There are no attempts being made to bring it back either.
2D
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Thats what I always understood, but the person I spoke to, who seemed to know [or at least gave the impression] what they were talking about. I questioned the fact that PPL IR did exist and they were sure that it would no longer be issued and you had to have a CPL....
Sounds whiffy to me too, so to be continued......
EA
PS after thinking about it for some time, I can't see how they [the authorities] could ban a PP from getting an IR and insist on a CPL...?
Sounds whiffy to me too, so to be continued......
EA
PS after thinking about it for some time, I can't see how they [the authorities] could ban a PP from getting an IR and insist on a CPL...?
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An IR is an IR no matter what licence you hold, Private or Commercial. The IR exams are the same for PPL Holders and CPL holders.
Yes the old National PPL/IR is dead, but the JAA IR is here to stay and you can add it to a PPL or a CPL.
Details in LASORS 2003 Section E:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_E.pdf
Yes the old National PPL/IR is dead, but the JAA IR is here to stay and you can add it to a PPL or a CPL.
Details in LASORS 2003 Section E:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/Lasors_Section_E.pdf
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EA
Aviation is full of people who seem to know (or rather give the impresssion that they know) what they are talking about. Suppose that should be lesson number one on all syllabuses.
Aviation is full of people who seem to know (or rather give the impresssion that they know) what they are talking about. Suppose that should be lesson number one on all syllabuses.
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I concur with 2Donkeys - a couple of weeks ago I phoned CAA FCL and quizzed them directly about IWR etc. they were pretty clear that there is to be no replacement for the IMC. 
Pity in my view 'cos you could then plan to let down if necessary at your European destination - whilst planning VFR and intending to stay VFR a la UK use of IMC. This would give far more certainty to trips (need to stay current etc. etc.)
Pity in my view 'cos you could then plan to let down if necessary at your European destination - whilst planning VFR and intending to stay VFR a la UK use of IMC. This would give far more certainty to trips (need to stay current etc. etc.)
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Sounds like the person I spoke with is in a time warp, I wonder if they know about the JAA? Cheers for the replies, time to go back and try again !
Rgds
EA
Cheers for the replies, time to go back and try again !Rgds
EA
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Remember englishal, although you will not need a Class 1 medical you will need to have an audiogram done by your AME to have the IR. Good idea to get this out of the way before you start.
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If you want a PPL/IR, and it is possible to use an N-reg plane, a far better route is an FAA PPL and FAA IR.
Easier to do, you get credit for previous instrument training (up to 25 hrs IIRC), you don't have the ludicrous JAR ATPL ground school (14 exams), and a Class 3 medical is dead easy to get.
For a plane owner, there are savings all the way down the line too. Own maintenance, only annual checks, able to use FAA STC'd parts...
Easier to do, you get credit for previous instrument training (up to 25 hrs IIRC), you don't have the ludicrous JAR ATPL ground school (14 exams), and a Class 3 medical is dead easy to get.
For a plane owner, there are savings all the way down the line too. Own maintenance, only annual checks, able to use FAA STC'd parts...
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I have the FAA IR but the trouble is I don't have access to an N reg. My plan is to eventually get one[ the Mrs is a yank, so she can 'own' it I'll just fly it] but in the meantime, I'm going to get involved with a G reg group for a couple of years, earn some more money [or win the lottery] then bring a N reg back to the UK, hopefully sell some shares in it to help finance the running costs [anyone interested?]
Cheers
EA
] but in the meantime, I'm going to get involved with a G reg group for a couple of years, earn some more money [or win the lottery] then bring a N reg back to the UK, hopefully sell some shares in it to help finance the running costs [anyone interested?]Cheers
EA
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I'm sure I'm not alone in this, but I find licences desperately confusing. Am I right in thinking that the IR is a standalone rating? Maybe I can use an example to explain what I mean:
Pilot X is a vanilla PPL. He decides to add the IR to his licence. Manages to find a school that offers the IR training. Gets his IR. Later on, he decides that he wants to get his CPL. Am I right in thinking that once he's got his CPL, he has exactly the same qualifications as someone who did an integrated CPL/IR? That an IR is an IR, no matter which licence type you add it to?
Pilot X is a vanilla PPL. He decides to add the IR to his licence. Manages to find a school that offers the IR training. Gets his IR. Later on, he decides that he wants to get his CPL. Am I right in thinking that once he's got his CPL, he has exactly the same qualifications as someone who did an integrated CPL/IR? That an IR is an IR, no matter which licence type you add it to?
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I've looked into this quite alot recently and I think this is the position:
You can add an IR to your PPL by studying and taking either the IR exams, of which there are 7 (through Atlantic Flight Training or GTS) or by taking the full 14 ATPL exams. You then do the 50 or 55 hour flying course, depending on whether you want a single engine or multi IR.
If having gone this route you decide you want a CPL then, unless you took the full 14 ATPL exams you will have to take the CPL exams, of which there are 9.
So, only take the IR exams if you're sure you won't later want a CPL as well! The exams last for 36 months from the date of the last pass.
Once you have a JAA IR you can convert it to an FAA IR by applying for a Restricted FAA PPL and you can then convert your JAA IR to an FAA IR by taking a cut down version of the full FAA IR exam (I think its called the Instrument Foreign Pilot exam). Then providing you maintain validity on your JAA IR the FAA IR remains valid on the back of it.
You can go the FAA -> JAA route but have to take all the JAA exams and do 15 hours flying. I doubt it is any cheaper taking this route, even though the FAA IR requires only 40 hours and you can count the time spent elsewhere instrument flying, which means that you can count your 15 hours on the IMC rating towards the 40, which you can't do under JAA!! Bizzar!!
You can add an IR to your PPL by studying and taking either the IR exams, of which there are 7 (through Atlantic Flight Training or GTS) or by taking the full 14 ATPL exams. You then do the 50 or 55 hour flying course, depending on whether you want a single engine or multi IR.
If having gone this route you decide you want a CPL then, unless you took the full 14 ATPL exams you will have to take the CPL exams, of which there are 9.
So, only take the IR exams if you're sure you won't later want a CPL as well! The exams last for 36 months from the date of the last pass.
Once you have a JAA IR you can convert it to an FAA IR by applying for a Restricted FAA PPL and you can then convert your JAA IR to an FAA IR by taking a cut down version of the full FAA IR exam (I think its called the Instrument Foreign Pilot exam). Then providing you maintain validity on your JAA IR the FAA IR remains valid on the back of it.
You can go the FAA -> JAA route but have to take all the JAA exams and do 15 hours flying. I doubt it is any cheaper taking this route, even though the FAA IR requires only 40 hours and you can count the time spent elsewhere instrument flying, which means that you can count your 15 hours on the IMC rating towards the 40, which you can't do under JAA!! Bizzar!!
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It baffles the hell out of me....Why have 7 exams for the IR? Knowing the JAA exams its probably so you know how to set up an approach in a 737 FMS [even though you have no intention of flying one] or so you know who's legally responsible for the Airmail packet you're carrying should you be delayed or have to divert becasue of weather....
Cheers
EA
Cheers
EA
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Englishal
You should probably take a look at the exam contents before writing them off quite so swiftly.
The IR exams teach a much better knowledge of the weather than either the FAA IR or the IMC (not difficult).
They cover radio theory to the point of pain, admittedly less than interesting in parts
They cover the way in which your instruments work.
They cover navigation to the point where you can safely navigate your aircraft, pretty-much regardless of its avionics fit, anywhere on the planet.
Passing the JAA IR will bring about the biggest jump forward in your aviation knowledge. Nothing quite compares to it.
Tell me I'm wrong once you have the paper in your hand.
You should probably take a look at the exam contents before writing them off quite so swiftly.
The IR exams teach a much better knowledge of the weather than either the FAA IR or the IMC (not difficult).
They cover radio theory to the point of pain, admittedly less than interesting in parts
They cover the way in which your instruments work.
They cover navigation to the point where you can safely navigate your aircraft, pretty-much regardless of its avionics fit, anywhere on the planet.
Passing the JAA IR will bring about the biggest jump forward in your aviation knowledge. Nothing quite compares to it.
Tell me I'm wrong once you have the paper in your hand.
I've done both FAA IR and JAR ATPL exams and there is some useful stuff in them but mostly they're a load of tosh. They are an acedemic hoop to jump through.
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What is so strange is the lack of overlap between the exams. If you take the IR set and later want a CPL the only exam you are credited with is IFR Comms! Although you get credit in terms of hours of study you effectively repeat most areas of study in the further exams, although I suppose you go into it all in more depth.
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Ham
I sat both sets of ATPLs.
There is no question which set of exams gives the broadest knowledge base on which to draw later on in your aviation career.
If your objective is to jump through hoops and forget the subject matter later, then I can see why one might prefer the FAA exams. They are easier, and there is less subject matter covered.
2D
I sat both sets of ATPLs.
There is no question which set of exams gives the broadest knowledge base on which to draw later on in your aviation career.
If your objective is to jump through hoops and forget the subject matter later, then I can see why one might prefer the FAA exams. They are easier, and there is less subject matter covered.
2D