Warbird Flying - What does it take?
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Warbird Flying - What does it take?
Hi, I'm basically interested in what it takes to start flying warbirds. Firstly my situation is that I wish to, and it's now looking rather likely, join the RAF as a pilot and for arguments sake lets assume the I wind up on fast jets because if I don't I doubt anyone will trust I have the ability to give me a WWII fighter to play with.
So on top of this what other experience do I need to get to, lets say, fly a Spitfire as I very much doubt I'll ever have a million pounds to play with. I presume a lot of tail dragger experience is necessary but how many hours, on what type and at what cost? Also where in the UK offers this type of training, or even the US, etc?
Secondly and I realise this is looking many moons into the future if I did build up tail dragger time on say tiger moths, harvards, etc and had say 1000hrs+ fast jet from the RAF who do you approach to teach you to fly a spitfire?
If this is more suited to another forum please say and just for the record it's really the WWII pistons that I'm interested in and not jets as hopefully that'll be the day job.
Many thanks for any responses.
So on top of this what other experience do I need to get to, lets say, fly a Spitfire as I very much doubt I'll ever have a million pounds to play with. I presume a lot of tail dragger experience is necessary but how many hours, on what type and at what cost? Also where in the UK offers this type of training, or even the US, etc?
Secondly and I realise this is looking many moons into the future if I did build up tail dragger time on say tiger moths, harvards, etc and had say 1000hrs+ fast jet from the RAF who do you approach to teach you to fly a spitfire?
If this is more suited to another forum please say and just for the record it's really the WWII pistons that I'm interested in and not jets as hopefully that'll be the day job.
Many thanks for any responses.
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If you're going to join the RAF then somewhere along the way you will probably come across an instructor called Charlie Brown. He's one of the main warbird flying instructors in the country - specialising in the Spitfire.
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Well, if you are successful in your quest to be an RAF Fast jet pilot, then if you make a good enough impression, then maybe the RAF will let you play with one of their spit’s! I guess that means you’ll probably have to be flying the Eurofighter from Coningsby, but that would be no great hardship would it?!!!!
If you’re not successful in joining the RAF, then head stateside with a lot of money! (But you will need a lot!). Warbird adventures at Kissimmee will teach you to fly the Harvard (T-6 texan over there!) www.warbirdadventures.com A ten hour course on the T6 will set you back $5200.
From there, it’s just a small walk across the pan to Stallion 51 www.stallion51.com . They will teach you to the P51. They recommend a minimum of 500hours, 100 hours of which should be on tail draggers, and at least 10 hours of that should be on the Harvard. As for the P51 course… No idea what it costs, but I remember it being far too much for me!
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Grob Driver
Ps – If anyone is heading to Florida, then I’d recommend an hour in one of the T6’s at Kissimmee…. Great fun!
If you’re not successful in joining the RAF, then head stateside with a lot of money! (But you will need a lot!). Warbird adventures at Kissimmee will teach you to fly the Harvard (T-6 texan over there!) www.warbirdadventures.com A ten hour course on the T6 will set you back $5200.
From there, it’s just a small walk across the pan to Stallion 51 www.stallion51.com . They will teach you to the P51. They recommend a minimum of 500hours, 100 hours of which should be on tail draggers, and at least 10 hours of that should be on the Harvard. As for the P51 course… No idea what it costs, but I remember it being far too much for me!
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Grob Driver
Ps – If anyone is heading to Florida, then I’d recommend an hour in one of the T6’s at Kissimmee…. Great fun!
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Thanks for that. I know it's a way off before I get into the position to fly a Spit but I was wondering how I could help myself to get there in the mean time and this helps. I guess it's fly a cheap tail dragger to build up the hours and then off to Kissimmee. Hopefully with a lot of RAF hours too, God willing. Then maybe try to get the BBMF to let me get my hands on one of theirs.
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How do you get to fly warbirds - be at the right place at the right time, with the right qualifications, recognise what it is and grab it as it goes past.
Here's some routes that have worked in the past for colleagues:
RAF FJ, Conningsby F3's, BBMF. They don't require any tailwheel experience, they'll teach you what you need to know. However, most of the pilots are station execs, which means you'll have to work hard, be sucessful in your RAF career, and wait some time before you are eligible...
RAF FJ, TP, get some tailwheel experience, possibly Harvard at Boscombe Down, leave RAF and join Rolls-Royce, fly Rolls-Royce Spitfire, or should I say Spitfires as they are rebuilding MN-E, the Mk XIV that crashed about ten years ago.
RAF pilot (not necessarily FJ), TP, volunteer for Shuttleworth Collection, wait a long time, but they'll teach you what you need to know and eventually you'll fly the Shuttleworth Spitfire, Lysander, Gladiator, Hind and Hurricane and a lot of other interesting types as well.
RAF FJ, volunteer for a civilian flying unit, such as North Weald, that uses service pilots to teach civilians, teach warbird owners formation etc, eventually persuade an owner to let you fly their warbird.
Spend a lot of money on taildragger experience - Tiger Moth, Harvard, Yak, etc, have a great time, maybe at airshows, and wait for the opertunity to arrive and hope you spot it as it goes past.....
Become a Pop Star and buy your own - Dave Gilmour and Gary Newman did it, so why can't you....
Does that help? Maybe the last two don't, but the rest could work.
A
Here's some routes that have worked in the past for colleagues:
RAF FJ, Conningsby F3's, BBMF. They don't require any tailwheel experience, they'll teach you what you need to know. However, most of the pilots are station execs, which means you'll have to work hard, be sucessful in your RAF career, and wait some time before you are eligible...
RAF FJ, TP, get some tailwheel experience, possibly Harvard at Boscombe Down, leave RAF and join Rolls-Royce, fly Rolls-Royce Spitfire, or should I say Spitfires as they are rebuilding MN-E, the Mk XIV that crashed about ten years ago.
RAF pilot (not necessarily FJ), TP, volunteer for Shuttleworth Collection, wait a long time, but they'll teach you what you need to know and eventually you'll fly the Shuttleworth Spitfire, Lysander, Gladiator, Hind and Hurricane and a lot of other interesting types as well.
RAF FJ, volunteer for a civilian flying unit, such as North Weald, that uses service pilots to teach civilians, teach warbird owners formation etc, eventually persuade an owner to let you fly their warbird.
Spend a lot of money on taildragger experience - Tiger Moth, Harvard, Yak, etc, have a great time, maybe at airshows, and wait for the opertunity to arrive and hope you spot it as it goes past.....
Become a Pop Star and buy your own - Dave Gilmour and Gary Newman did it, so why can't you....
Does that help? Maybe the last two don't, but the rest could work.
A
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join Rolls-Royce, fly Rolls-Royce Spitfire, or should I say Spitfires as they are rebuilding MN-E,
Was that the one that crashed at Woodford in 1992, loop into the runway? If so, there wasn't a lot left. How can that be rebuilt?
SSD
Was that the one that crashed at Woodford in 1992, loop into the runway? If so, there wasn't a lot left. How can that be rebuilt?
SSD
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SSD,
With enough time, money and will-power you can make or source almost every part. One of the notable exceptions, for some reason, is said to be the undercarriage selector. I imagine the process will in conceptual terms be something like:
1: Jack up undercarriage selector
2: Replace aeroplane
3: Jack down undercariage selector
Takes a few years and a seven-figure sum, of course.
Whether you end up with a Spitfire, a Spitfire composite, or a replica, is a kettle of fish best left to the philosophical or religious.
Back to the original question. A senior instructor involved in converting people to warbirds at Duxford recently confirmed to me what others have said: the best preparatory experience you are likely to build at reasonable cost is flying a Chippie from the back seat with a hulking great mate in the front. On a more pragmatic note, he also reminded me that the ability to navigate safely and accurately around the countryside with no more than a compass, map and stopwatch, with no GPS or navaids, at anything between 180 and 240 knots, with limited fuel endurance and not a lot of view ahead, is also highly relevant.
With enough time, money and will-power you can make or source almost every part. One of the notable exceptions, for some reason, is said to be the undercarriage selector. I imagine the process will in conceptual terms be something like:
1: Jack up undercarriage selector
2: Replace aeroplane
3: Jack down undercariage selector
Takes a few years and a seven-figure sum, of course.
Whether you end up with a Spitfire, a Spitfire composite, or a replica, is a kettle of fish best left to the philosophical or religious.
Back to the original question. A senior instructor involved in converting people to warbirds at Duxford recently confirmed to me what others have said: the best preparatory experience you are likely to build at reasonable cost is flying a Chippie from the back seat with a hulking great mate in the front. On a more pragmatic note, he also reminded me that the ability to navigate safely and accurately around the countryside with no more than a compass, map and stopwatch, with no GPS or navaids, at anything between 180 and 240 knots, with limited fuel endurance and not a lot of view ahead, is also highly relevant.
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No-one mentioned brown-nosing yet. Unless you've got tons of money this is a pre-requisite to being allowed to fly someone else's prize warbird...
Seriously, talent, dedication and a pleasant personality will get you a long way.
Seriously, talent, dedication and a pleasant personality will get you a long way.
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SSD,
Why you say that there wasn't much left of the R-R Spit that crashed at Woodford, and yes that is the aircraft I was refering to?
In fact, although the fabric off the control surfaces burned away, as did some of the tail ribs, everything else is still extant. And there's a surprising amount of that still useable. So, when MN-E finally comes out of the shed, it'll still be significantly MN-E.
On the subject of flying Spitfires, althiough they are significantly different from modern types, they are one of the easiest warbirds to fly and operate. After all, if they were difficult, they wouldn't have built 20 odd thousand of them, they wouldn't have lasted 10 years in production over a world war, and most importantly, they wouldn't have been so successful in combat in the hands of the average British teenager............
Bye for now,
A
Why you say that there wasn't much left of the R-R Spit that crashed at Woodford, and yes that is the aircraft I was refering to?
In fact, although the fabric off the control surfaces burned away, as did some of the tail ribs, everything else is still extant. And there's a surprising amount of that still useable. So, when MN-E finally comes out of the shed, it'll still be significantly MN-E.
On the subject of flying Spitfires, althiough they are significantly different from modern types, they are one of the easiest warbirds to fly and operate. After all, if they were difficult, they wouldn't have built 20 odd thousand of them, they wouldn't have lasted 10 years in production over a world war, and most importantly, they wouldn't have been so successful in combat in the hands of the average British teenager............
Bye for now,
A
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In fact, although the fabric off the control surfaces burned away, as did some of the tail ribs, everything else is still extant. And there's a surprising amount of that still useable. So, when MN-E finally comes out of the shed, it'll still be significantly MN-E.
Then I am amazed. I have a video of the accident, and the aeroplane flies into the runway staright off a loop, essentially level (slightly nose and left wing low), but stalled and with a very high rate of descent. The left wing and lower fuselage appear to totaly disintegrate before the fireball consumes the aeroplane (the runway surface is one third of the way up the fuselage, as if the aeroplane has descended through it!) and then the remains appear to break up and bounce away in all directions.
SSD
Then I am amazed. I have a video of the accident, and the aeroplane flies into the runway staright off a loop, essentially level (slightly nose and left wing low), but stalled and with a very high rate of descent. The left wing and lower fuselage appear to totaly disintegrate before the fireball consumes the aeroplane (the runway surface is one third of the way up the fuselage, as if the aeroplane has descended through it!) and then the remains appear to break up and bounce away in all directions.
SSD
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Hi SSG,
We're getting away from the thread, so I've sent you a personal message on the subject. However, I do agree that it's amazing what was left of the machine after the crash.
VBW
A
We're getting away from the thread, so I've sent you a personal message on the subject. However, I do agree that it's amazing what was left of the machine after the crash.
VBW
A
