TMG or not TMG?
Thread Starter
Prince of Pastry
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 63
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From: Somewhere in the oggin
TMG or not TMG?
I need to revalidate my SEP PPL mid July, and I would like to use hours flown in a Grob 109B to renew by experience, although I do not have a TMG rating.
Firstly, is a Grob 109B with pax and fuel (adding up to more than 850kg) even classed as a 'touring motor glider'? The weight limit for a TMG is supposed to be 850kg, so I would argue that a 'fully laden' 109 is single engine piston aircraft. The trouble is, I'm not sure whether the CAA would agree.
Secondly, I suppose I could go and get a TMG rating. I have heard rumours that given x number of hours on motorgliders (around 70), the CAA will just give out a TMG rating in exchange for the appropriate fee. The snag is that the nice young lady at FCL was not so convinced that this could be done, and she seemed to think I would need to do a TMG skill test before I could count the hours in the 109. Of course, if I'm going to do a skill test, then I don't need the hours do I? (Thus defeating the object of getting the damn thing in the first place!)
Does anybody have any experience with this kind of thing?
Pie
Firstly, is a Grob 109B with pax and fuel (adding up to more than 850kg) even classed as a 'touring motor glider'? The weight limit for a TMG is supposed to be 850kg, so I would argue that a 'fully laden' 109 is single engine piston aircraft. The trouble is, I'm not sure whether the CAA would agree.
Secondly, I suppose I could go and get a TMG rating. I have heard rumours that given x number of hours on motorgliders (around 70), the CAA will just give out a TMG rating in exchange for the appropriate fee. The snag is that the nice young lady at FCL was not so convinced that this could be done, and she seemed to think I would need to do a TMG skill test before I could count the hours in the 109. Of course, if I'm going to do a skill test, then I don't need the hours do I? (Thus defeating the object of getting the damn thing in the first place!)
Does anybody have any experience with this kind of thing?
Pie
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
If you are loading a G109b to more than 850kg, then...
- Either you're flying illegally, since last I looked 850kg is the MTOW, and I'm not sure I'd tell the CAA about it.
- It's a Vigilant T1 which has an MTOW of 908kg. The SLMG/TMG definition in JAR-22 only goes up to 850kg, so it must be a light aircraft. (Well I told the CAA that once and got away with it ).
I think the CAA have given up handing out "grandfather rights" ratings because it got them into too many arguments. So, if you were flying a civil G109b you were in their eyes, either flying with an instructor and a student logging P/UT, or a passenger.
G
- Either you're flying illegally, since last I looked 850kg is the MTOW, and I'm not sure I'd tell the CAA about it.
- It's a Vigilant T1 which has an MTOW of 908kg. The SLMG/TMG definition in JAR-22 only goes up to 850kg, so it must be a light aircraft. (Well I told the CAA that once and got away with it ).
I think the CAA have given up handing out "grandfather rights" ratings because it got them into too many arguments. So, if you were flying a civil G109b you were in their eyes, either flying with an instructor and a student logging P/UT, or a passenger.
G
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
If you have a JAR-FCL SEP Class Rating and current UK national SLMG privileges (check in your licence), and you have flown a total of 75 hours total time as pilot of aeroplanes (including motor gliders which meet the JAR definition of TMG) , you can apply for the TMG rating without having to pass the TMG Licensing Skill Test.
Without a TMG Class Rating, you can't count hours flown under national SLMG privileges (even in a JAR-definition TMG) towards the re-validation of your SEP Class Rating.
So I guess that the answer is to obtain the TMG Rating (but there'll no doubt be a £67-ish fee to pay) if you have 75 hours TT, then you can count any TMG time towards re-validating both your SEP and TMG ratings.
See LASORS Section F5.3 and Section F1.4
Without a TMG Class Rating, you can't count hours flown under national SLMG privileges (even in a JAR-definition TMG) towards the re-validation of your SEP Class Rating.
So I guess that the answer is to obtain the TMG Rating (but there'll no doubt be a £67-ish fee to pay) if you have 75 hours TT, then you can count any TMG time towards re-validating both your SEP and TMG ratings.
See LASORS Section F5.3 and Section F1.4
