Looking for a N Reg Aircraft in UK
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 1998
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From: on the move
Looking for a N Reg Aircraft in UK
Hi there fellow Aviators,
I am returning to UK and looking to do some Flying on N Reg aircraft to keep myself current.I have 2500 hours a FAA ATP.I also have a FAA A&P and would be more than happy to help with the maintenance side of things.
Any help would be great.
I am returning to UK and looking to do some Flying on N Reg aircraft to keep myself current.I have 2500 hours a FAA ATP.I also have a FAA A&P and would be more than happy to help with the maintenance side of things.
Any help would be great.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey land
I love you guys!
You are so flexible with your VFR/VMC IMC/IFR that you are even confusing yourselves.
I always thought the same as Mr Donkeys, and the CAA would only allow a foreign licence for day VFR only. Now I read your ANO, I can't see the day-only restriction. Can anybody help?
You are so flexible with your VFR/VMC IMC/IFR that you are even confusing yourselves.
I always thought the same as Mr Donkeys, and the CAA would only allow a foreign licence for day VFR only. Now I read your ANO, I can't see the day-only restriction. Can anybody help?
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Unfortunately there is no such thing as a plain English initiative by the CAA so you have to read and interpret.....Unlike the FAA who have a very nice plain English Q&A on the FARs.
The ANO [Part 4 Article 21 paragraph 4] states [in plain English] that a licence issued by an ICAO state can be used in the UK in a G reg aircraft at Private level only. It does not restrict you to Day or VFR flight and ANO Aritcle 21 [4] does not prohibit exercising the privileges of your ICAO ratings [ie. Multi / IR] while in command of a G reg aircraft either. However there is an exception stating that you are not allowed to fly in controlled airspace in a circustance where you must comply with IFR - instrument flight rules [to avoid confusion]. Situations where you would have to comply with IFR [rules] would be if you were in IMC [conditions], or on an IFR flight plan [However you'd be on an IFR flight plan while in IMC in CAS anyway]. So lets call it on an IFR flight plan in CAS regardless of the conditions of flight.I am not sure on Night flying in CAS as I haven't researched it [this is technically IFR].
However ! Outside CAS, whether day or night you are entitled to fly in accordance with IFR does mean that you no longer need to be 'in sight of the surface' or in VMC [visual met conditions] and you can be on an IFR flight plan if you wish. In the UK there is no requirement to be on an IFR flight plan whilst in IMC while outside CAS. This also applies in France and Germany as they accept 'whatever the CAA accept'.
A vanilla JAA PPL must fly 'in sight of the surface' at all times, whether in or out of CAS which clearly rules out VFR-ontop or flight in IMC conditions.
So in theory an FAA certified pilot who holds FAA ME/IR wishing to fly from Bournemouth to L2K in a ME aircraft could file a composite flight plan, leaving under VFR, transfering to IFR outside CAS, then transfering back to VFR before entering French CAS.
Hope this clarifies the quagmire a bit!
EA
The ANO [Part 4 Article 21 paragraph 4] states [in plain English] that a licence issued by an ICAO state can be used in the UK in a G reg aircraft at Private level only. It does not restrict you to Day or VFR flight and ANO Aritcle 21 [4] does not prohibit exercising the privileges of your ICAO ratings [ie. Multi / IR] while in command of a G reg aircraft either. However there is an exception stating that you are not allowed to fly in controlled airspace in a circustance where you must comply with IFR - instrument flight rules [to avoid confusion]. Situations where you would have to comply with IFR [rules] would be if you were in IMC [conditions], or on an IFR flight plan [However you'd be on an IFR flight plan while in IMC in CAS anyway]. So lets call it on an IFR flight plan in CAS regardless of the conditions of flight.I am not sure on Night flying in CAS as I haven't researched it [this is technically IFR].
However ! Outside CAS, whether day or night you are entitled to fly in accordance with IFR does mean that you no longer need to be 'in sight of the surface' or in VMC [visual met conditions] and you can be on an IFR flight plan if you wish. In the UK there is no requirement to be on an IFR flight plan whilst in IMC while outside CAS. This also applies in France and Germany as they accept 'whatever the CAA accept'.
A vanilla JAA PPL must fly 'in sight of the surface' at all times, whether in or out of CAS which clearly rules out VFR-ontop or flight in IMC conditions.
So in theory an FAA certified pilot who holds FAA ME/IR wishing to fly from Bournemouth to L2K in a ME aircraft could file a composite flight plan, leaving under VFR, transfering to IFR outside CAS, then transfering back to VFR before entering French CAS.
Hope this clarifies the quagmire a bit!
EA
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Cheese-eating Surrender Monkey land
You have misunderstood my question englishal.
I can read the ANO and reach the same conclusion as you.
However, before I read it, I was of the same opinion as 2Donkeys. I am wondering where I saw the day only restriction.
I can read the ANO and reach the same conclusion as you.
However, before I read it, I was of the same opinion as 2Donkeys. I am wondering where I saw the day only restriction.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Surrey, UK.
englishal is there anything preventing you posting that letter from the CAA here?
I would be very interested to have a read.
I have a supplementary question also: Can non-radio aircraft fly at night in the UK?
TIA.
I would be very interested to have a read.
I have a supplementary question also: Can non-radio aircraft fly at night in the UK?
TIA.
PPruNaholic!
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Buckinghamshire
Confused!?
I am currently training for UK IMC rating, so this problem does not directly affect me, but I had thought that holders of FAA PPL/IR were able to exercise IMC priveleges (as indicated above), but it the goes on to say that they can't fly in accordance with the IFR in controlled airspace..!
I understand our IMC ratings don't let us fly in class A airspace, but what good is an IMC rating (granted on strength of FAA PPL/IR) that can't be used within classes F & D (which I think are the only two categories of controlled airspace that apply)?
Confusing or what!? Seems such a minefield!
I understand our IMC ratings don't let us fly in class A airspace, but what good is an IMC rating (granted on strength of FAA PPL/IR) that can't be used within classes F & D (which I think are the only two categories of controlled airspace that apply)?
Confusing or what!? Seems such a minefield!
Last edited by Aussie Andy; 12th May 2003 at 17:30.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Bournemouth
Andy,
I don't think it's quite that simple. The holder of an ICAO PPL/IR (including FAA) may apply for an IMC rating to be added to his UK (CAA/JAR) license without requiring any further training. He is not automatically entitled to use his foreign IR in the UK. If the pilot doesn't hold a UK license, then there is no license to which he can add the IMC rating, so this obviously doesn't apply.
At least, that's the way I think it works. But I don't think I'm any less confused than anyone else! Englishal has the right idea, IMHO - if there's any doubt at all, get it in writing from the CAA.
FFF
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I had thought that holders of FAA PPL/IR were able to exercise IMC proveleges
At least, that's the way I think it works. But I don't think I'm any less confused than anyone else! Englishal has the right idea, IMHO - if there's any doubt at all, get it in writing from the CAA.
FFF
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Carbonfibre-based lifeform
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 747
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From: London
He is not automatically entitled to use his foreign IR in the UK.
To actually answer the question.......
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Brighton
Aussie Andy
If you have a FAA IR then you get IR privileges in the UK outside controlled airspace.
If you then write off to the CAA for the IMC Rating, you get the full UK IMC Rating and all its normal privileges, no restrictions just because it was based on the FAA IR (AFAIK!)
The best way of course, for an FAA PPL/IR, is to fly an N-reg plane and then you can go anywhere!! Plus you get loads of other benefits, e.g. own maintenance, no star annuals, can fit various non-CAA-approved STC mods... much easier (Class 3) medicals
If you have a FAA IR then you get IR privileges in the UK outside controlled airspace.
If you then write off to the CAA for the IMC Rating, you get the full UK IMC Rating and all its normal privileges, no restrictions just because it was based on the FAA IR (AFAIK!)
The best way of course, for an FAA PPL/IR, is to fly an N-reg plane and then you can go anywhere!! Plus you get loads of other benefits, e.g. own maintenance, no star annuals, can fit various non-CAA-approved STC mods... much easier (Class 3) medicals
