How much do you pay per hour?
So far as I know A CORRECTLY WORKING standard Hobbs meter (tacho) records actual time irrespective of revs.
Having said that, I used to fly a difficult to start syndicated aeroplane whose Hobbs would jump during the starting cycle. My record was 1.3 hours on the Hobbs until I got the engine running - actually about 10 minutes of mucking about and swearing loudly at the aeroplane.
Strangely I don't fly that aircraft any more, but noticed it for sale on a notice board the other day.
Looking at a couple of online catalogues such as http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=170 , or http://www.ishams.com/p1000afms.html I can't see any reference to scaling.
I suspect that wise renters would rent dry, then there's a definite incentive upon hiring pilots to fly at best economy, which will tend to be treatment that prolongs the engine life (well except in the first few hours after a new engine has gone in anyway).
G
Having said that, I used to fly a difficult to start syndicated aeroplane whose Hobbs would jump during the starting cycle. My record was 1.3 hours on the Hobbs until I got the engine running - actually about 10 minutes of mucking about and swearing loudly at the aeroplane.
Strangely I don't fly that aircraft any more, but noticed it for sale on a notice board the other day.
Looking at a couple of online catalogues such as http://www.wicksaircraft.com/gotopage.php?page=170 , or http://www.ishams.com/p1000afms.html I can't see any reference to scaling.
I suspect that wise renters would rent dry, then there's a definite incentive upon hiring pilots to fly at best economy, which will tend to be treatment that prolongs the engine life (well except in the first few hours after a new engine has gone in anyway).
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 13th May 2003 at 00:50.
Dude:
Thanks for clarifying the method by which you were charged, and it may well be that Brisbane is less competitive than Sydney.
At the field from which I fly I was, until recently, able to hire a Duchess for AUD 250 per hour (based on VDO not air switch). At today's rates that would be GBP 100 per hour. (Unfortunately the aircraft is no longer available.)
Thanks for clarifying the method by which you were charged, and it may well be that Brisbane is less competitive than Sydney.
At the field from which I fly I was, until recently, able to hire a Duchess for AUD 250 per hour (based on VDO not air switch). At today's rates that would be GBP 100 per hour. (Unfortunately the aircraft is no longer available.)
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Beagle Pup Series 2 (BT12)
£60 per Month Standing Order.
£35 per Tacho Hour (Wet).
Semi Aerobatic aeroplane with all of the kit... ILS/VOR/ADF/2 COM etc etc...
Based at a nice big airport so no problems with muddy runways! Oh and the landing/touch n go/navigation/approach fees... well they are inclusive with the monthly parking fees.
£60 per Month Standing Order.
£35 per Tacho Hour (Wet).
Semi Aerobatic aeroplane with all of the kit... ILS/VOR/ADF/2 COM etc etc...
Based at a nice big airport so no problems with muddy runways! Oh and the landing/touch n go/navigation/approach fees... well they are inclusive with the monthly parking fees.
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Summary
Here's a small and somewhat incomplete summary of hourly wet rates: not including planes which have a monthly rate.
Arrow £90
Duchess £130
Druine Turbulent £19
Warrior £76 £95 £110 £120 £122
Archer II £85 £100 £120
R2160 £77
100kt Jodel £45
C152 £50 £95 £100 £110
PA28 Dakota £140
PA38 £85
C172 £135(£160dual!)
PA34 Senecca £255
Arrow £90
Duchess £130
Druine Turbulent £19
Warrior £76 £95 £110 £120 £122
Archer II £85 £100 £120
R2160 £77
100kt Jodel £45
C152 £50 £95 £100 £110
PA28 Dakota £140
PA38 £85
C172 £135(£160dual!)
PA34 Senecca £255
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Genghis
Can't understand your comment re: renting on a dry rate will mean flying ecominically and prolong engine life.
Call me a young fool (against your background / experience) but I always thought this was the complete opposite. Any fuel leaning, be it to best economy or even too lean to save every penny will result in increased engine temperature and increased wear (poorer lubrication at high temps.)
This is why when I was training (in Florida) we where told never to lean the mixture at any level, to keep the temperature and engine wear down.
Surely if your renting wet you aint gonna worry about using a couple more litres and keeping the cht down...
Can't understand your comment re: renting on a dry rate will mean flying ecominically and prolong engine life.
Call me a young fool (against your background / experience) but I always thought this was the complete opposite. Any fuel leaning, be it to best economy or even too lean to save every penny will result in increased engine temperature and increased wear (poorer lubrication at high temps.)
This is why when I was training (in Florida) we where told never to lean the mixture at any level, to keep the temperature and engine wear down.
Surely if your renting wet you aint gonna worry about using a couple more litres and keeping the cht down...
A fair point well made.
Works both ways really.
Overly enthusiastic leaning will as you say add to engine wear and reduce life, although properly done leaning shouldn't (especially in an aircraft actually fitted with an EGT gauge).
On the other hand routine red-lining of the throttle to cut 5 minutes off journey time, taking off as soon as possible (because it's on the tacho) rather than idling to warm the engine up properly for a few more minutes, or shutting down the engine immediately the aircraft is parked, rather than again letting it idle for a few minutes and settling down. All those things reduce the engine life.
I suppose ultimately wet-leasing is much easier on the paperwork.
G
Works both ways really.
Overly enthusiastic leaning will as you say add to engine wear and reduce life, although properly done leaning shouldn't (especially in an aircraft actually fitted with an EGT gauge).
On the other hand routine red-lining of the throttle to cut 5 minutes off journey time, taking off as soon as possible (because it's on the tacho) rather than idling to warm the engine up properly for a few more minutes, or shutting down the engine immediately the aircraft is parked, rather than again letting it idle for a few minutes and settling down. All those things reduce the engine life.
I suppose ultimately wet-leasing is much easier on the paperwork.
G
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Have to agree with Oscar Duece here. I would think very very carefully about paying a dry rate. The only reason I was happy to pay a dry rate for my aircraft is because there is no mixture control, so no danger of other pilots over-leaning.
As for taking off as soon as possible, the easy way around this is to pay for take-off to landing (as my group does), or brakes-off to brakes-on (as the club/school that I hire from occassionally does). This applies for a dry rate as well as a wet rate.
FFF
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As for taking off as soon as possible, the easy way around this is to pay for take-off to landing (as my group does), or brakes-off to brakes-on (as the club/school that I hire from occassionally does). This applies for a dry rate as well as a wet rate.
FFF
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The Yak 52 I fly is £60 a month, plus £60 an hour dry, plus landing fee. I have no problem with this. The aircraft has automatic mixture control anyway. Depending on what you do the fuel burn can be from about 60 litres to 100 litres an hour, so the fairest way of doing things is to fill up with 100LL and top up the oil when you finish. The system works very well as you always start with full tanks so there is no argument.
Other prices I pay:
Arrow II £135 an hour wet (chock to chock) and including home base landings
Bulldog £118 an hour wet (tacho)
RD
Other prices I pay:
Arrow II £135 an hour wet (chock to chock) and including home base landings
Bulldog £118 an hour wet (tacho)
RD
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That sounds great Rallye Driver, what kind of flights do you generally do in your Yak? Do you go places, or is it a sort of 45min jolly plane? What speed does it do as I 've see Yak52s take off and they often seem to lift of in around 100yds then climb wildly. 400hp isnt it though?!
Don't forget that dry rates are great for people and their planes who often fly to the continent - cheap fuel...!
Don't forget that dry rates are great for people and their planes who often fly to the continent - cheap fuel...!
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It's basically a 45 minute jolly aircraft, as the endurance is about 2 hours at 60% power, or an hour if you do aeros at 82%.
I'm still in the process of being checked out, which is taking some time as the Yak had to go back to Romania last year to have some spar cap corrosion fixed and has only just come back (via Lithuania for a 500 hour check). Then there will be another delay when it's put onto the G-register. The last attempt was when the corrosion was uncovered.
Our 52 has got a standard 360hp M-14P, giving you about 200kph at 60%/60cm.
Nice, fun aeroplane to fly.
RD
I'm still in the process of being checked out, which is taking some time as the Yak had to go back to Romania last year to have some spar cap corrosion fixed and has only just come back (via Lithuania for a 500 hour check). Then there will be another delay when it's put onto the G-register. The last attempt was when the corrosion was uncovered.
Our 52 has got a standard 360hp M-14P, giving you about 200kph at 60%/60cm.
Nice, fun aeroplane to fly.
RD
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I pay 107 Euros/hr (£67) wet for a PA-28/161 Warrior and 122 Euros (£81) for an Archer II. The Robin 400 is priced at 90 Euros/hr (£60) wet - but then that's in France!
Training in the US, I had to pay $75/hr for a Warrior (£50 at the time) and $59 for a C-152 (£40). The (brand new) PA-44-180 Seminole was $175/hr (£120 back then).
In Jo'burg, I paid £48.50/hr for Warrior III and Archer III, £65/hr for Arrow, and... £150/hr for Cessna-310!
In Britain, I have to pay £90/hr for a Warrior... Guess why I prefer GA flying accross the Channel!!!
Training in the US, I had to pay $75/hr for a Warrior (£50 at the time) and $59 for a C-152 (£40). The (brand new) PA-44-180 Seminole was $175/hr (£120 back then).
In Jo'burg, I paid £48.50/hr for Warrior III and Archer III, £65/hr for Arrow, and... £150/hr for Cessna-310!
In Britain, I have to pay £90/hr for a Warrior... Guess why I prefer GA flying accross the Channel!!!
Last edited by FougaMagister; 22nd May 2003 at 01:18.
