French charts - what am I missing?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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French charts - what am I missing?
Well, plans for summer flying are starting to form, and I've purchased some French charts in the hope of actually getting over there without an instructor - something I failed to do last year because I ran out of time!
I was looking over these French charts, dreaming of all the places I probably won't have time to go this year either, when I noticed something missing. According to my UK chart, there is an airway which runs from Southampton towards the Channel Islands. I think it's N866 (but that may be wrong, I don't have my charts to hand), and it has a base of FL35.
But it isn't shown at all on the north-west France chart!
I checked the legend on the chart, and came across a note that "Airspace of type Airway with a base below FL65 is not shown". So that explains why it's missing....
But if I was planning on flying, let's say, Sandown to somewhere in the Channel Islands, using only the French chart (which is entirely valid, since it covers the entire route with a bit to spare), I would, as far as I can see, have no way of knowing that there was an airway there, and might fly right through it (since my direct track crosses it) without ever knowing
I asked a French pilot about this last night, and he was just as confused as me.
More to the point (I'm not really worried about this airway because I know it's there!!!) are there any more low-level airways which aren't shown on the French charts that I should be aware of?
FFF
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I was looking over these French charts, dreaming of all the places I probably won't have time to go this year either, when I noticed something missing. According to my UK chart, there is an airway which runs from Southampton towards the Channel Islands. I think it's N866 (but that may be wrong, I don't have my charts to hand), and it has a base of FL35.
But it isn't shown at all on the north-west France chart!
I checked the legend on the chart, and came across a note that "Airspace of type Airway with a base below FL65 is not shown". So that explains why it's missing....
But if I was planning on flying, let's say, Sandown to somewhere in the Channel Islands, using only the French chart (which is entirely valid, since it covers the entire route with a bit to spare), I would, as far as I can see, have no way of knowing that there was an airway there, and might fly right through it (since my direct track crosses it) without ever knowing
I asked a French pilot about this last night, and he was just as confused as me.More to the point (I'm not really worried about this airway because I know it's there!!!) are there any more low-level airways which aren't shown on the French charts that I should be aware of?
FFF
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Although the French chart covers the intended route you describe, I don't think it would be good airmanship for you to use a French chart for a flight in UK airspace - I'm sure there is a disclaimer on the UK chart about using it in Northern France, so the opposite must also apply. Therefore you should take both maps with you when you go.
Addressing your concern on other airways that may be missing from the French charts - typically the low level airways in France are class E airspace. You can legally fly in class E airways without any ATC clearance as long as you fly the appropriate flight level (based on a semi-circular rule). I'm sure you're aware that VFR flights in France must fly the correct altitude at all times - whether on airways or not.
If you want French charts with no altitude restrictions on the airways shown, you need to buy even more charts from Transair
Sparky
Addressing your concern on other airways that may be missing from the French charts - typically the low level airways in France are class E airspace. You can legally fly in class E airways without any ATC clearance as long as you fly the appropriate flight level (based on a semi-circular rule). I'm sure you're aware that VFR flights in France must fly the correct altitude at all times - whether on airways or not.
If you want French charts with no altitude restrictions on the airways shown, you need to buy even more charts from Transair
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The French charts do not attempt to show all non-French controlled airspace. Use your own charts for the UK FIRs.
PhilD, the Jepp Charts are very well known for their numerous inaccuracies in France. Use instead the French SIV (AIS) charts which I saw yesterday in Transair. This takes the form of two 1:1,000,000 maps covering all of France, and a special high-resolution chart covering the Paris Region. Unbeatable, it even comes with a mini AIP giving flight rules in France, and Danger Area Information.
PhilD, the Jepp Charts are very well known for their numerous inaccuracies in France. Use instead the French SIV (AIS) charts which I saw yesterday in Transair. This takes the form of two 1:1,000,000 maps covering all of France, and a special high-resolution chart covering the Paris Region. Unbeatable, it even comes with a mini AIP giving flight rules in France, and Danger Area Information.
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TvR - thanks for the tip, I'll checkout the SIV chart, although I've just bought about 6 Jepp charts covering the route from the UK to Prague! I hope the accuracy is better in Germany....
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The accuracy of most Jeppesen products is inversely proportional to the distance between the place being mapped and Deutschland.
Bottlang coverage in Germany is incredible... other places, less so.
Bottlang coverage in Germany is incredible... other places, less so.
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Once again TvR is right. Use the French version of their airspace maps and all will be clear. Where do Jepp get the info anyway? From the French!!
I am currently struggling with the Italian Jepp maps and plates, does an official Italian version exist in the UK pilot shops?
I am currently struggling with the Italian Jepp maps and plates, does an official Italian version exist in the UK pilot shops?
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According to my UK chart, there is an airway which runs from Southampton towards the Channel Islands. I think it's N866 (but that may be wrong, I don't have my charts to hand), and it has a base of FL35. But it isn't shown at all on the north-west France chart!
When I was doing the VFR-GPS articles a little while back, (before the final one on 'problems' was published), a pilot wrote in to say he thought all the fuss about GPS 'not to be used for primary nav' was just nonesense. He was so sure of his GPS moving map technology he didn't use charts any more, and he was offering to fly me anywhere in Europe without looking at a chart and would guarantee his GPS would work ok and not get him into trouble. - With all of Europe on offer, I just nominated Bournemouth to Cherbourg
(he must have checked a real chart and spotted N866 wasn't on his GPS, he never got back to me...)
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Irv, great story!
Capt_sparky, I seem to recall that the UK charts warn that non-UK airspace is not NOTAM'ed by the UK authorities. Don't recall any warnings about missing airspace, though - and I know people use the UK charts to fly to Le Touquet regularly.
This whole thing is a little worrying. I think I will make a point of only flying in a country if I have that country's approved ICAO charts (or Jepp charts, although I'm not a huge fan of Jepp VFR charts).
Thanks - at least it's not just me!
FFF
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PS - capt_sparky, can't remember if I ever replied to the last PM you sent me, and the system has stopped saving sent PMs. But if I haven't already replied - thanks!
Capt_sparky, I seem to recall that the UK charts warn that non-UK airspace is not NOTAM'ed by the UK authorities. Don't recall any warnings about missing airspace, though - and I know people use the UK charts to fly to Le Touquet regularly.
This whole thing is a little worrying. I think I will make a point of only flying in a country if I have that country's approved ICAO charts (or Jepp charts, although I'm not a huge fan of Jepp VFR charts).
Thanks - at least it's not just me!
FFF
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PS - capt_sparky, can't remember if I ever replied to the last PM you sent me, and the system has stopped saving sent PMs. But if I haven't already replied - thanks!
