VFR flights @ London City
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VFR flights @ London City
Hello,
I'm a belgian private pilot, flying the C172. This summer I have the plan to visit London for one day and I was just wondering if London City airport is available for day VFR flights as well....
Can someone on this forum confirm if I can come to EGLC on a private VFR flight?
Many thanks!
Hans
I'm a belgian private pilot, flying the C172. This summer I have the plan to visit London for one day and I was just wondering if London City airport is available for day VFR flights as well....
Can someone on this forum confirm if I can come to EGLC on a private VFR flight?
Many thanks!
Hans
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Why London City? This will cost you >£100 in landing fees, parking handling etc. Fly to Elstree where you are only 15min. from a tube station that will take you into Central London.
PS
Do not forget to call for PPR and briefing.
Why London City? This will cost you >£100 in landing fees, parking handling etc. Fly to Elstree where you are only 15min. from a tube station that will take you into Central London.
PS
Do not forget to call for PPR and briefing.
Why London City? This will cost you >£100 in landing fees, parking handling etc. Fly to Elstree where you are only 15min. from a tube station that will take you into Central London.
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You need:
Two engines
Two CPL Qualified pilots
Both of you steep ILS approach qualified
A Handling Agent
Lots of cash (£300 landing fee at peak times)
As AC-DC says, Elstree (EGTR) is a better bet. All you need there is some VFR skill and occasionally a thick skin if the AFISO gets bolshy...
Alternatively Denham (EGLD) is also convenient for the train to London.
Two engines
Two CPL Qualified pilots
Both of you steep ILS approach qualified
A Handling Agent
Lots of cash (£300 landing fee at peak times)
As AC-DC says, Elstree (EGTR) is a better bet. All you need there is some VFR skill and occasionally a thick skin if the AFISO gets bolshy...
Alternatively Denham (EGLD) is also convenient for the train to London.
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Not available for GA flying I am afraid. Largely due to the intense noise restrictions around EGLC.
From the City Airport Website:
ALL aircraft using the Airport must be of an approved type. To qualify for approval an aircraft must fit into one of the Airport's Noise Categories and be capable of making an approach at 5.5 degrees or steeper (this compares with 3 degrees at most other airports). Helicopters and other vertical take off and landing (VTOL) aircraft, and aircraft with a single engine, are prohibited and flying for club or leisure purposes is not permitted. Type approval is given by the Airport's Operations and Control Department, telephone: +44 (0)20 7646 0241, fax: +44 (0)20 7511 0248, e-mail: [email protected]
more at: City Airport Website
Why not Biggin Hill/Elstree etc? Both easily accesible to London.
ALSO - please check your maps carefully - there is complicated and busy airspace around the London area. Don't forget that the London City Zone is active 24 Hours now. As is the London Heathrow Control Zone.
Have fun either way!
From the City Airport Website:
ALL aircraft using the Airport must be of an approved type. To qualify for approval an aircraft must fit into one of the Airport's Noise Categories and be capable of making an approach at 5.5 degrees or steeper (this compares with 3 degrees at most other airports). Helicopters and other vertical take off and landing (VTOL) aircraft, and aircraft with a single engine, are prohibited and flying for club or leisure purposes is not permitted. Type approval is given by the Airport's Operations and Control Department, telephone: +44 (0)20 7646 0241, fax: +44 (0)20 7511 0248, e-mail: [email protected]
more at: City Airport Website
Why not Biggin Hill/Elstree etc? Both easily accesible to London.
ALSO - please check your maps carefully - there is complicated and busy airspace around the London area. Don't forget that the London City Zone is active 24 Hours now. As is the London Heathrow Control Zone.
Have fun either way!
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hansengels,
I would recommend Biggin Hill (EGKB). Reasonably easy to get into London and if you want to go flight-seeing then there is a nice little route across the dome through the Class D city zone. Assuming the clearence is given, most times it is. If traffic doesn't permit you can fly around the Dartford x-ing, which is nice to see.
I have heard many second hand stories about the AFISO at Elstree but have no direct experience of the chap there and the attitude. If it is as challenging as is said then that is sad really but it takes all sorts to make a world. All I can say is that the controllers at Biggin Hill have always shown a professional attitude to me even when I make a mistake, which IMHO is the way it should be.
Barney
P.S. Our group C172 is hangered at Biggin so if you want any local knowledge please send me a PM or E-mail; happy to help
I would recommend Biggin Hill (EGKB). Reasonably easy to get into London and if you want to go flight-seeing then there is a nice little route across the dome through the Class D city zone. Assuming the clearence is given, most times it is. If traffic doesn't permit you can fly around the Dartford x-ing, which is nice to see.
I have heard many second hand stories about the AFISO at Elstree but have no direct experience of the chap there and the attitude. If it is as challenging as is said then that is sad really but it takes all sorts to make a world. All I can say is that the controllers at Biggin Hill have always shown a professional attitude to me even when I make a mistake, which IMHO is the way it should be.
Barney
P.S. Our group C172 is hangered at Biggin so if you want any local knowledge please send me a PM or E-mail; happy to help
Why do it if it's not fun?
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If you decide to do as Barney suggests and get a clearance to cross the zone, please check your aircraft's gliding capability. Remember the requirement to be able to land clear of a built up area in case of an engine failure. You will have to turn down any clearance which is at an altitude which wouldn't allow you to do this. And since the zone only extends to 2500' (it's a class A TMA above that) it may be that it's not possible at all. Not something I'd try in a single-engined aeroplane, personally.
But there are plenty of airfields around the edge of London which will happily take GA aircraft, and you can get good views of London while remaining safely clear of the built up areas if you wait until a day when the viz is at least reasonable. Have fun!
FFF
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But there are plenty of airfields around the edge of London which will happily take GA aircraft, and you can get good views of London while remaining safely clear of the built up areas if you wait until a day when the viz is at least reasonable. Have fun!
FFF
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Crossing the LCY is normally easy at the weekends - especially when LCY is closed. (Saturday after 1230L and Sunday before 1230L)
If you are a single fixed wing don't expect anything further West than the Lea Valley.
If you are twin it is much easier to cross. Especially when LCY is on 28 as the zone between Vauxhall and London Bridge can be transited not above 2000 feet without impacting on 28 departures (normally not higher due to LHR traffic). Sometimes you will be given cleared LEVEL at 2400 feet (remaining VMC of course!) as the go around from both ends is up to 2000 initially and traffic downwind to 10 will be level at 2000 abeam the field (again due to LHR traffic)
When LCY is on easterlies it gets a bit harder as there are no places to hold really - especially from the North. Places likely to be held are 1nm North or South of LCY (to let tower get you across using reduced seperartion in the vicinity of an airport) or hold at the Southern most tip of the Isle of Dogs from the South or Southern most lake on the Lea Valley to the North (not so easy to define though) - then you will be asked to look for the traffic and follow it! (We assume you won't catch the Falcon/146 just airborne - please point it out to me if you can!!!!!)
As said - don't forget Rule 5 at all times - you could end up in trouble in this current security climate if you don't adhere to it. You can be sure someone will see over the congested area and report you.
If you are a single fixed wing don't expect anything further West than the Lea Valley.
If you are twin it is much easier to cross. Especially when LCY is on 28 as the zone between Vauxhall and London Bridge can be transited not above 2000 feet without impacting on 28 departures (normally not higher due to LHR traffic). Sometimes you will be given cleared LEVEL at 2400 feet (remaining VMC of course!) as the go around from both ends is up to 2000 initially and traffic downwind to 10 will be level at 2000 abeam the field (again due to LHR traffic)
When LCY is on easterlies it gets a bit harder as there are no places to hold really - especially from the North. Places likely to be held are 1nm North or South of LCY (to let tower get you across using reduced seperartion in the vicinity of an airport) or hold at the Southern most tip of the Isle of Dogs from the South or Southern most lake on the Lea Valley to the North (not so easy to define though) - then you will be asked to look for the traffic and follow it! (We assume you won't catch the Falcon/146 just airborne - please point it out to me if you can!!!!!)
As said - don't forget Rule 5 at all times - you could end up in trouble in this current security climate if you don't adhere to it. You can be sure someone will see over the congested area and report you.
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FFF,
If you get a clearence not above 2400ft from Thames Radar to cross the Dome and then up the Lea Valley I have always worked on the assumption that if the engine quits then I would use LCY (EGLC) in my emergency plan.
Approx. 9:1 glide ratio gives max range of about 3 to 3.5nm in still air roughly.
Is this not such a good idea.....Not a challenge to you, just want to check this idea out to see if you or others think this is sailing close to the wind?
If you get a clearence not above 2400ft from Thames Radar to cross the Dome and then up the Lea Valley I have always worked on the assumption that if the engine quits then I would use LCY (EGLC) in my emergency plan.
Approx. 9:1 glide ratio gives max range of about 3 to 3.5nm in still air roughly.
Is this not such a good idea.....Not a challenge to you, just want to check this idea out to see if you or others think this is sailing close to the wind?
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Not sure if you would make EGLC - and they may have something rolling/short final. There are of course lots of buildings and no room for error of you get it wrong (unless you fly with lifejackets on!)
The reason that I give routings up the Lea Valley is it is generally uncongested. There are a lot of places to let down there aren't there (and a few big expanses to the South of City in Greenwich area)
Failing that, the Thames. Probably a good chance of being rescued from a boat there! I think that you would do well to make LCY.
The reason that I give routings up the Lea Valley is it is generally uncongested. There are a lot of places to let down there aren't there (and a few big expanses to the South of City in Greenwich area)
Failing that, the Thames. Probably a good chance of being rescued from a boat there! I think that you would do well to make LCY.
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There was an article in either "Pilot" or "Flyer" magazine a few year's ago about single-engine helicopter routes across London. Now, if I remember the article correctly, pilots using these routes were expected to land in the Thames in the event of engine failure. I have always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the same option was available to single-engine aircraft.
Don't forget to take the wind into account.
One point that I don't think has been mentioned is that the landing fees are higher at Biggin than at the North London airfields, but you will save significantly on the flight time by using Biggin, and as has already been pointed out, you can expect to be treated in a professional manner.
Don't forget to take the wind into account.
One point that I don't think has been mentioned is that the landing fees are higher at Biggin than at the North London airfields, but you will save significantly on the flight time by using Biggin, and as has already been pointed out, you can expect to be treated in a professional manner.
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Yes - single engined flights are only allowed on the river Thames in Central London due to "The Specified Area". (H4)
So yes, ditching is an option. Assuming you miss the floatilla of boats there you can get one to rescue you.
See:
Heli chart map
So yes, ditching is an option. Assuming you miss the floatilla of boats there you can get one to rescue you.
See:
Heli chart map
Not so N, but still FG
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As mentioned above, Elstree is closest to London, but in my opinion that is all it has to recommend it
Two other optiions which are closer to London than Biggin: North Weald (huge, hard runway) and Stapleford (grass). If cost is a factor, the landing fees are cheaper than at Biggin and I don't think that they charge for overnight parking.
Two other optiions which are closer to London than Biggin: North Weald (huge, hard runway) and Stapleford (grass). If cost is a factor, the landing fees are cheaper than at Biggin and I don't think that they charge for overnight parking.
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Thanks AlanM for the info. Out of glide range of LCY I have seen other less populated possibilities. I think in future I will modify my mental plan and reduce the value of LCY as a bolt hole and increase my thoughts elsewhere including the Thames. I don't go up that way oftern but is quite nice sometimes. Last time I diverted around the Dartford x-ing on the way out and came back through the zone. The time difference was pretty minimal.
Cheers
Cheers
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Interestingly, few of the ATCO's I know "risk" flying the Lea Valley - preferring the Dartford option! As you say - it is negligable in terms of time (but less picturesque for the pax!)
I am not saying that LCY wouldn't accept you if in dire straits - but landing on an unfamiliar aircraft carrier with a narrow runway in an emergency needs a cool head. I think I would end up swimming!!!! I would far prefer a sports pitch! Any LCY based aircraft generally divert elsewhere in emergencies (normally STN).
I am not saying that LCY wouldn't accept you if in dire straits - but landing on an unfamiliar aircraft carrier with a narrow runway in an emergency needs a cool head. I think I would end up swimming!!!! I would far prefer a sports pitch! Any LCY based aircraft generally divert elsewhere in emergencies (normally STN).
Round here they would fail you for such a decision.
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Round here you would end up in the Old Bailey, if you killed 20 school children short final, when you could have taken a sports pitch
Commanders decision....who said flying was easy!!
(if you missed the buildings and crashed in the river, killing only yourself you would of course be a hero!!
)
Be safe out there.
Commanders decision....who said flying was easy!!
(if you missed the buildings and crashed in the river, killing only yourself you would of course be a hero!!
)Be safe out there.
