My RT is terrible...!
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My RT is terrible...!
Hi all,
Its my first post here but i'm not new to pprune, your posts have been helping me throughout the 2 years or so of training i've been doing for my PPL so first of all thankyou!
Anyway, back to the subject, i've done about 50hrs ppl training so far and i'll be doing my cross country qualifier within the next couple of weeks so I'm quite confident with my flying/navigation abilities but RT is, i think, letting me down.
I seem to get into a muddle when passing the details of my flight to ATC and also remembering every detail they give me.
My instructor has told me to prepare what i need to say and what information i should expect back from ATC but i still regulary make mistakes.
I've read both Trevor Thom and Jeremy Pratt but all this theory seems to go out the window for me as soon as I get up in the air and have to fly/navigate the plane.
Can you guys offer any advice, maybe you've had similar experiences when training?
Thanks in advance, monkey
Its my first post here but i'm not new to pprune, your posts have been helping me throughout the 2 years or so of training i've been doing for my PPL so first of all thankyou!
Anyway, back to the subject, i've done about 50hrs ppl training so far and i'll be doing my cross country qualifier within the next couple of weeks so I'm quite confident with my flying/navigation abilities but RT is, i think, letting me down.
I seem to get into a muddle when passing the details of my flight to ATC and also remembering every detail they give me.
My instructor has told me to prepare what i need to say and what information i should expect back from ATC but i still regulary make mistakes.
I've read both Trevor Thom and Jeremy Pratt but all this theory seems to go out the window for me as soon as I get up in the air and have to fly/navigate the plane.
Can you guys offer any advice, maybe you've had similar experiences when training?
Thanks in advance, monkey
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G'day monkeyslave,
I was taught to use a mnemonic to help remember what info to pass on first contact with an ATC unit:
PHACER:
P - Position
H - Heading
A - Altitude
C - Conditions (i.e. Flight Rules, IFR or VFR - just say "VFR")
E - Enroute to ...
R - Request (e.g. "Flight Information Service please" or "Zone transit please")...
(To be fair, this is a bit overly verbose... I tend not to include Heading for example).
I don't use this now as I guess I just "know" what I want to thell them, i.e. WHO I am, WHERE I am and WHAT I want... but to start with when I just felt too overloaded to THINK at all (!) I foudn the mnemonic useful, and usually wrote it somewhere discretely on my PLOG and would run my finger down the list whilst saying it, so knew I wouldn't forget anything (although I sometimes did anyway)...
Hope this helps! Let us know how you get on...
Andy
I was taught to use a mnemonic to help remember what info to pass on first contact with an ATC unit:
PHACER:
P - Position
H - Heading
A - Altitude
C - Conditions (i.e. Flight Rules, IFR or VFR - just say "VFR")
E - Enroute to ...
R - Request (e.g. "Flight Information Service please" or "Zone transit please")...
(To be fair, this is a bit overly verbose... I tend not to include Heading for example).
I don't use this now as I guess I just "know" what I want to thell them, i.e. WHO I am, WHERE I am and WHAT I want... but to start with when I just felt too overloaded to THINK at all (!) I foudn the mnemonic useful, and usually wrote it somewhere discretely on my PLOG and would run my finger down the list whilst saying it, so knew I wouldn't forget anything (although I sometimes did anyway)...
Hope this helps! Let us know how you get on...
Andy
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Hi Monkeyslave,
I felt the same at first when I was doing my PPL. Sounds like it's more nerves than lack of ability.
I found it helped to write down my calls at first and then fill in the gaps. (Height or altitude, Heading etc). Also don't be too afraid of making a mistake or leaving something out. If you do leave something out and its important, the nice man or lady on the other end of the radio will prompt you for it. If you don't have the information on the tip of your tongue or are busy doing something else like Aviating or Navigating ask him or her to Standby, and tell them when you can. Don't be scared to ask them to repeat instructions or questions. Say if you don't understand. I'm sure they'd much prefer to have you getting to your destination in one piece.
Personally, as soon as I stopped worrying about the r/t, my r/t got better.
Have you thought about getting a little handheld airband receiver and listening in on a few frequencies. Many people say this helps.
Don't worry and perhaps mention that your a student pilot or tyro when you make your initial call.
I think many of us have been daunted by r/t at first. I still write long calls down! Practice makes perfect!
Best Wishes,
FWyg
I felt the same at first when I was doing my PPL. Sounds like it's more nerves than lack of ability.
I found it helped to write down my calls at first and then fill in the gaps. (Height or altitude, Heading etc). Also don't be too afraid of making a mistake or leaving something out. If you do leave something out and its important, the nice man or lady on the other end of the radio will prompt you for it. If you don't have the information on the tip of your tongue or are busy doing something else like Aviating or Navigating ask him or her to Standby, and tell them when you can. Don't be scared to ask them to repeat instructions or questions. Say if you don't understand. I'm sure they'd much prefer to have you getting to your destination in one piece.
Personally, as soon as I stopped worrying about the r/t, my r/t got better.
Have you thought about getting a little handheld airband receiver and listening in on a few frequencies. Many people say this helps.
Don't worry and perhaps mention that your a student pilot or tyro when you make your initial call.
I think many of us have been daunted by r/t at first. I still write long calls down! Practice makes perfect!
Best Wishes,
FWyg
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Congratulations on being completely normal.
There is no secret formula... we all cheat (erm, don't we?)... write it down!
In my kneeboard I have a small piece of paper with the order of which details to give when passing flight details etc. When I change frequency I look at it, run through it, then transmit the info (keeping the sheet in front of me). Bear in mind I can't afford to fly regularly... when I could I didn't need the sheet.
Likewise, when receiving information, write it down. You don't need every detail, write down the important bits.
For example: "Join runway 23 left hand, QFE 1003"
You write "23 L 1003"
Or make up a printed sheet on your PC with headings for important pieces of info, for example a box marked 'info' for ATIS, a box marked "QNH", one marked "registration" etc.
Most important thing to do is practise. Get together with another student and take it in turns being ATC and pilot. Once you know how they're likely to respond to you, you'll find it much easier to retain the information and relax when you're talking.
Good luck.
There is no secret formula... we all cheat (erm, don't we?)... write it down!
In my kneeboard I have a small piece of paper with the order of which details to give when passing flight details etc. When I change frequency I look at it, run through it, then transmit the info (keeping the sheet in front of me). Bear in mind I can't afford to fly regularly... when I could I didn't need the sheet.
Likewise, when receiving information, write it down. You don't need every detail, write down the important bits.
For example: "Join runway 23 left hand, QFE 1003"
You write "23 L 1003"
Or make up a printed sheet on your PC with headings for important pieces of info, for example a box marked 'info' for ATIS, a box marked "QNH", one marked "registration" etc.
Most important thing to do is practise. Get together with another student and take it in turns being ATC and pilot. Once you know how they're likely to respond to you, you'll find it much easier to retain the information and relax when you're talking.
Good luck.
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Hi monkeyslave,
Nice name by the way.
Don't worry about RT - I was the same, it does take practice. For me, RT was one of the most challenging things about the PPL, and once 'fluent' is one of the most satisfying. To be able to converse like the big boys in a professional way is quite a buzz.
When I did the RT course, I was taught that the most important thing was to learn off by heart the whole message. If you can do this, then you can do anything. I'm sure you've read lots about this, but here is my routine when passing details to any ATS unit.
Callsign
A/c type
From
To
Via
Conditions (VFR/IFR)
Position
Altitude/FL
Pressure Setting
SQWARK
example.
G-ABCD
is a PA28
From Carlisle
to Blackpool
via Lancaster
VFR
Position 10 miles north of Ulverston
Altitude 3500ft
QNH 1010
Sqwarking 2354 Charlie
Thats it - if you remember this then your half way there. I spend 1-2hrs a day commuting, and used this time to say this over and over again until it was second nature.
When receiving information, you should learn to expect certain things at certain times. If approaching an airfield, expect to take the runway and pressure setting details. If requesting a FIS or RIS then expect to readback FIS/RIS, QNH and perhaps Sqwark
Always remember to read back information in the order it was passed to you, for example if passed Runway, QNH, QFE, then read it back in that order, not QNH, Runway then QFE etc etc.
Not sure what else to say. It might help to point out some of the mistakes you are making. Other than that, Good luck!
Bodie
Nice name by the way.
Don't worry about RT - I was the same, it does take practice. For me, RT was one of the most challenging things about the PPL, and once 'fluent' is one of the most satisfying. To be able to converse like the big boys in a professional way is quite a buzz.
When I did the RT course, I was taught that the most important thing was to learn off by heart the whole message. If you can do this, then you can do anything. I'm sure you've read lots about this, but here is my routine when passing details to any ATS unit.
Callsign
A/c type
From
To
Via
Conditions (VFR/IFR)
Position
Altitude/FL
Pressure Setting
SQWARK
example.
G-ABCD
is a PA28
From Carlisle
to Blackpool
via Lancaster
VFR
Position 10 miles north of Ulverston
Altitude 3500ft
QNH 1010
Sqwarking 2354 Charlie
Thats it - if you remember this then your half way there. I spend 1-2hrs a day commuting, and used this time to say this over and over again until it was second nature.
When receiving information, you should learn to expect certain things at certain times. If approaching an airfield, expect to take the runway and pressure setting details. If requesting a FIS or RIS then expect to readback FIS/RIS, QNH and perhaps Sqwark
Always remember to read back information in the order it was passed to you, for example if passed Runway, QNH, QFE, then read it back in that order, not QNH, Runway then QFE etc etc.
Not sure what else to say. It might help to point out some of the mistakes you are making. Other than that, Good luck!
Bodie
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I was taught Who you are, Where you are, What you want. I use
C - Callsign (G-PRNE...)
A - Aircraft (...is a PA-28...)
R - Route (...VFR from A to B...)
P - Position (...currently C...)
A - Altitude (...at 3000ft on 998mb...)
R - Request (...request FIS and MATZ crossing)
If they need any more they'll ask. Don't bother with things like heading (you've told them the route anyway), estimates or anything else. CAP413 goes way over the top with 'pass your message' IMHO.
Best advice is to practice. Think up situations, work out what you'd say.
C - Callsign (G-PRNE...)
A - Aircraft (...is a PA-28...)
R - Route (...VFR from A to B...)
P - Position (...currently C...)
A - Altitude (...at 3000ft on 998mb...)
R - Request (...request FIS and MATZ crossing)
If they need any more they'll ask. Don't bother with things like heading (you've told them the route anyway), estimates or anything else. CAP413 goes way over the top with 'pass your message' IMHO.
Best advice is to practice. Think up situations, work out what you'd say.
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I echo AerBabe's comments on that, I still write down PACER on my kneeboard, just so if my mind goes blank I have something to fall back on. When I was doing my ppl training I would practice giving position reports, asking for departure clearance, zone transits etc whilst driving to and from the aerodrome till they became second nature. Just start talking to yourself more, you might look mad but it will help!!
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I have it written down too...and it's on a cheat-sheet poking out from the bottom of my kneeboard so I can always see it.
I also jot down the important bits when they tell me onto the kneeboard, in fact at the end of a flight I often have to deciper the relevant numbers etc and figure out which set of numbers were tacho times...which were real times...I don't think there's any magical answer...it just sort of improves as you get used to speaking to more & more people.
I also, when changing to a new frequency, try to listen for a few minutes and jot down the QFE, QNH etc that they give to others...then when they read it back, you already know what to expect and if it's different to whats written down you'll instantly notice
Hope it helps
I also jot down the important bits when they tell me onto the kneeboard, in fact at the end of a flight I often have to deciper the relevant numbers etc and figure out which set of numbers were tacho times...which were real times...I don't think there's any magical answer...it just sort of improves as you get used to speaking to more & more people.
I also, when changing to a new frequency, try to listen for a few minutes and jot down the QFE, QNH etc that they give to others...then when they read it back, you already know what to expect and if it's different to whats written down you'll instantly notice
Hope it helps
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Another top tip - Don't rush. Whilst the air traffiker will be speaking at "ten to the dozen", that doesn't mean you have to. Remember, he/she has to write down most of what you are saying. Therefore, use this to your advantage, remain clear and concise with an appropriate pace. If you miss something out, the controller will subsequently ask you for the additional information. Also, write down any numbers you are given; I guarantee that, if you don't, you will forget something (RW, QFE etc).
As AerBabe says, congrats on being normal.
As you've got 50 hours I hope you don't find the following condescending but I wish somebody had done it for me before my QXC. Anyway, I've found the following usually gets me through contact with ATC:
Me: "Luton Approach, this is G-ABCD"
Luton: "G-ABCD, pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster, inbound to Rush Green, currently overhead Hatfield at one thousand five hundred feet on 1012 (or whatever the QNH is cos I've been listening to Luton before making my call), requesting Zone entry."
Luton: "G-ABCD, cleared to enter controlled airspace, VFR, not above one thousand five hundred feet on 1012, call Rush Green in sight."
Me: "G-ABCD is cleared to enter controlled airspace, VFR, not above one thousand five hundred feet on 1012, call Rush Green in sight."
Me: "Luton, G-ABCD has Rush Green in sight, descending to land."
Luton: "G-ABCD, wind at Luton is 10knts at 320deg, bye."
Me: "Thanks for the wind, bye."
Enroute if passing an airfield within 5 miles or so (especially if I can hear they are busy) I'll give them a call something like:
Me: "Nowhere A/G, this is G-ABCD"
Nowhere A/G: "G-ABCD pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster, routing from 'somewhere' to 'somewhere else', I will be passing south abeam your field/overhead etc at 3,000' on 1012 (either the regional QNH or their field QNH/QFE that you've picked up by listening out before calling), is there any traffic to conflict."
Nowhere A/G: "Nothing known to conflict", or if you've inadvertantly picked a glider/para drop field to fly over, "there is intense traffic in our overhead, please stay clear you nerk".
Me: click, click on the PTT.
Me: "G-ABCD in the overhead"
Me: "G-ABCD clear of your field to the East/West etc."
Arriving usually goes something like:
Me: "Enstone, this is G-ABCD."
Enstone: "G-ABCD pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster in bound to you from the East, currently about 5 miles to run (or overhead a VRP if appropriate), could I have the airfield details please."
Enstone: "Runway 27 right hand (or whatever), QNH 1012, wind 260 at 10 knots, nothing to conflict."
Me: "27 right hand, 1012, I'll join downwind for the Southern grass (There are Northern and Southern grass runways each side of the main tarmac runway at Enstone), G-ABCD."
Enstone: "Nothing to conflict."
Me: "G-ABCD is downwind right hand for 27"
Me: "G-ABCD finals for 27 Southern grass."
Enstone: "Nothing to conflict" or possibly just a double click on the radio.
As you've got 50 hours I hope you don't find the following condescending but I wish somebody had done it for me before my QXC
. Anyway, I've found the following usually gets me through contact with ATC:Me: "Luton Approach, this is G-ABCD"
Luton: "G-ABCD, pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster, inbound to Rush Green, currently overhead Hatfield at one thousand five hundred feet on 1012 (or whatever the QNH is cos I've been listening to Luton before making my call), requesting Zone entry."
Luton: "G-ABCD, cleared to enter controlled airspace, VFR, not above one thousand five hundred feet on 1012, call Rush Green in sight."
Me: "G-ABCD is cleared to enter controlled airspace, VFR, not above one thousand five hundred feet on 1012, call Rush Green in sight."
Me: "Luton, G-ABCD has Rush Green in sight, descending to land."
Luton: "G-ABCD, wind at Luton is 10knts at 320deg, bye."
Me: "Thanks for the wind, bye."
Enroute if passing an airfield within 5 miles or so (especially if I can hear they are busy) I'll give them a call something like:
Me: "Nowhere A/G, this is G-ABCD"
Nowhere A/G: "G-ABCD pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster, routing from 'somewhere' to 'somewhere else', I will be passing south abeam your field/overhead etc at 3,000' on 1012 (either the regional QNH or their field QNH/QFE that you've picked up by listening out before calling), is there any traffic to conflict."
Nowhere A/G: "Nothing known to conflict", or if you've inadvertantly picked a glider/para drop field to fly over, "there is intense traffic in our overhead, please stay clear you nerk".
Me: click, click on the PTT.
Me: "G-ABCD in the overhead"
Me: "G-ABCD clear of your field to the East/West etc."
Arriving usually goes something like:
Me: "Enstone, this is G-ABCD."
Enstone: "G-ABCD pass your message."
Me: "G-ABCD is an Auster in bound to you from the East, currently about 5 miles to run (or overhead a VRP if appropriate), could I have the airfield details please."
Enstone: "Runway 27 right hand (or whatever), QNH 1012, wind 260 at 10 knots, nothing to conflict."
Me: "27 right hand, 1012, I'll join downwind for the Southern grass (There are Northern and Southern grass runways each side of the main tarmac runway at Enstone), G-ABCD."
Enstone: "Nothing to conflict."
Me: "G-ABCD is downwind right hand for 27"
Me: "G-ABCD finals for 27 Southern grass."
Enstone: "Nothing to conflict" or possibly just a double click on the radio.
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I think writing things down is not the solution, because when you're relatively inexperienced you've got your hands full with other things, like flying the plane. Watching a more experienced pilot seemingly have all the time in the world to do things always used to surprise me since I always seem to be in a rush.
I also think the mnemonics, like PHACER, aren't much help either - unless you want your call to come out like "P, position, 5 miles west of Brookman's Park, H, heading, 270 degrees, er, P, H, A, Altitude, 2000' on QNH 1012" etc. Of course, you know you'll sound daft saying the letters in between so you pause whilst you think them, then you feel bad because of the long gaps and it all just piles up. The trouble with writing down a script is that it doesn't allow for any deviations, like a variety of styles of position reports or missing out stuff that is obvious (flying from Stapleford inbound to Southend it'll be assumed you're flying East) or including stuff which isn't (heading when flying from Stapleford to Elstree but in a big clockwise circle around central London).
Instead my advice would be to practice, but not whilst paying 130 quid an hour to do so. If you've a friend with a PPL get them to take you flying and you do all the RT. Or do it sitting on the ground, with a simulated flight (if they know what they're doing). Lastly, for the response to the "pass your message" instruction you can do it on your own, anywhere. The only reason you struggle is because you've not done it enough. How hard do you find ringing a friend from the car and saying "Hi Steve, it's Fred. I'm just at Swiss Cottage, Golders Green in 10 minutes. Where shall I meet you?" which is basically a "pass your message" response.
I also think the mnemonics, like PHACER, aren't much help either - unless you want your call to come out like "P, position, 5 miles west of Brookman's Park, H, heading, 270 degrees, er, P, H, A, Altitude, 2000' on QNH 1012" etc. Of course, you know you'll sound daft saying the letters in between so you pause whilst you think them, then you feel bad because of the long gaps and it all just piles up. The trouble with writing down a script is that it doesn't allow for any deviations, like a variety of styles of position reports or missing out stuff that is obvious (flying from Stapleford inbound to Southend it'll be assumed you're flying East) or including stuff which isn't (heading when flying from Stapleford to Elstree but in a big clockwise circle around central London).
Instead my advice would be to practice, but not whilst paying 130 quid an hour to do so. If you've a friend with a PPL get them to take you flying and you do all the RT. Or do it sitting on the ground, with a simulated flight (if they know what they're doing). Lastly, for the response to the "pass your message" instruction you can do it on your own, anywhere. The only reason you struggle is because you've not done it enough. How hard do you find ringing a friend from the car and saying "Hi Steve, it's Fred. I'm just at Swiss Cottage, Golders Green in 10 minutes. Where shall I meet you?" which is basically a "pass your message" response.
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I'll have to disagree there drauk, as a re-back to a controller is exactly what is means - its reading back the clearance you have written down.
If you get a landing clearance such as 'Runway in use is zero-two' and you repeat back 'runway zero-two' but write down 20 on your kneeboard, you'll be in trouble as 20 is the reciprocal of 02.
But if you get a clearance 'Runway in use is zero-two', you then write (incorrectly) 20 and then read back what you've written 'Runway Two-zero', then you will get corrected.
I can never remember mnemonics, so I just say Who I am, Where I am and What I want to do. If the controller wants to know anything else, he'll ask.
One of the most important R/T phrases is 'SAY AGAIN' - if you miss something, ask for a repeat.
Another handy tip is to listen for what other aircraft are being told, you can note those details and tick-check them when they are passed to you.
If you get a landing clearance such as 'Runway in use is zero-two' and you repeat back 'runway zero-two' but write down 20 on your kneeboard, you'll be in trouble as 20 is the reciprocal of 02.
But if you get a clearance 'Runway in use is zero-two', you then write (incorrectly) 20 and then read back what you've written 'Runway Two-zero', then you will get corrected.
I can never remember mnemonics, so I just say Who I am, Where I am and What I want to do. If the controller wants to know anything else, he'll ask.
One of the most important R/T phrases is 'SAY AGAIN' - if you miss something, ask for a repeat.
Another handy tip is to listen for what other aircraft are being told, you can note those details and tick-check them when they are passed to you.
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So is mine!
Just to confuse you I was taught:
(Call sign) G-ABCD is a
T= Type - L-4 Cub..
R= Route - out of Glos for Duxford ..
P= Position - 3miles south abeam Banbury..
A= Altitude - 2000 ft on 1021..
C= Conditions - VMC..
E= Estimate - estimating north abeam Buckingham at 25..
R= Request - Reqest flight information service
I Found TRPACER easy to remember as it sounds like Tripacer -which is an aeroplane!
I almost always drop the victor mike bit - as Cubs don't fly IFR.
My trouble is that I almost never use the radio, and when I try I find either the bl**dy thing doesn't work, or I'm so surprised it does work that I totally screw up my message.
It's good to engage brain before opening mouth... gawd.. the times I've got to the estimate bit without having an estimate at all.. so it's all urms and arrhs while I try to dig myself out - yep I'm an idiot!
Anyway, my advice is:
A: rehearse what you are going to say in your head before you say it.
B: Write down the readback stuff IE activeRW/clearance/QNH etc
BEFORE you read it back - a few seconds reply lag is OK.
C: don't be afraid to say either 'stand by' of 'say again' - both are under used in my opinion..
D: Often you don't HAVE to talk to anyone 'G-XXXX is leaving frequency en-route ' is one of my favourte phrases and there is nothing wrong with a listening watch either..
Above all, don't be intimidated - the guy on the ground is there to help you make a safe flight and believe me he will have heard many, many screwed up RT messages from Students and qualified pilots alike, so.... RELAX.. try your best and have fun
Kingy
(Call sign) G-ABCD is a
T= Type - L-4 Cub..
R= Route - out of Glos for Duxford ..
P= Position - 3miles south abeam Banbury..
A= Altitude - 2000 ft on 1021..
C= Conditions - VMC..
E= Estimate - estimating north abeam Buckingham at 25..
R= Request - Reqest flight information service
I Found TRPACER easy to remember as it sounds like Tripacer -which is an aeroplane!
I almost always drop the victor mike bit - as Cubs don't fly IFR.
My trouble is that I almost never use the radio, and when I try I find either the bl**dy thing doesn't work, or I'm so surprised it does work that I totally screw up my message.
It's good to engage brain before opening mouth... gawd.. the times I've got to the estimate bit without having an estimate at all.. so it's all urms and arrhs while I try to dig myself out - yep I'm an idiot!
Anyway, my advice is:
A: rehearse what you are going to say in your head before you say it.
B: Write down the readback stuff IE activeRW/clearance/QNH etc
BEFORE you read it back - a few seconds reply lag is OK.
C: don't be afraid to say either 'stand by' of 'say again' - both are under used in my opinion..
D: Often you don't HAVE to talk to anyone 'G-XXXX is leaving frequency en-route ' is one of my favourte phrases and there is nothing wrong with a listening watch either..
Above all, don't be intimidated - the guy on the ground is there to help you make a safe flight and believe me he will have heard many, many screwed up RT messages from Students and qualified pilots alike, so.... RELAX.. try your best and have fun
Kingy
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Kolibear, I was talking about writing stuff down before you say it, not writing down a clearance that has been given to you. Sorry for not making that clear. Regardless, in theory there is nothing to say that you must write down a clearance that have been given to you that requires a read back. And in reality, how many pilots do this when flying VFR? On the basis of the delay that one hears between assigning a runway and it being confirmed I would imagine very few.
High Flying Bird
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Isn't it illegal to operate the radio without an R/T licence? So getting a friend to take you up and doing the R/T probably isn't such a good idea, unless they're an instructor.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I tend to agree with Drauk..trying to write all these things down just adds more hassle to what can be quite a difficult "art" when you first start out!
I tend to believe that the most important thing is to get the message across. In the real world I don't think the order matters that much.
I used to practice in the car to myself. Imagine a trip from your home airfield and just "talk" your side to "ATC" then practice again for real with a friendly club instructor.
When using the radio, speak slowly and lower your voice which imparts confidence and clarity...never, ever worry about asking ATC to repeat something you don't understand.
I tend to believe that the most important thing is to get the message across. In the real world I don't think the order matters that much.
I used to practice in the car to myself. Imagine a trip from your home airfield and just "talk" your side to "ATC" then practice again for real with a friendly club instructor.
When using the radio, speak slowly and lower your voice which imparts confidence and clarity...never, ever worry about asking ATC to repeat something you don't understand.
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Aerbabe
High flying Piranha ...! Ha, Ha, that's funny
I agree, but at 50hrs there is a good chance he has the R/T licence - I did mine quite early in the training and before the QXC - I was still rubbish though!
K
High flying Piranha ...! Ha, Ha, that's funny
I agree, but at 50hrs there is a good chance he has the R/T licence - I did mine quite early in the training and before the QXC - I was still rubbish though!
K
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Aerbabe, technically you're right, I forgot that.
Kingy, I doubt s/he actually has an RT license - s/he may well have passed the written and practical exam, but almost certainly haven't applied for the license yet having not applied for the PPL yet.
Kingy, I doubt s/he actually has an RT license - s/he may well have passed the written and practical exam, but almost certainly haven't applied for the license yet having not applied for the PPL yet.
)
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For your own peace of mind, you could declare that you are a student to the controller when you do your qualifying x country (reference Evil J's thread not so long ago).
Try to relax. My r/t used to be ten times better when my instructor wasn't there with me, for a couple of reasons:
1. I figured that I had to just get on with it as there was no-one else to help (In the scheme of things, does it really matter if you miss anything out? If you miss anything vital, the controller will ask, it's not the end of the world)
2. The pressure to 'get it right' from my instructor disappeared and the intimidation factor (no matter how small) wasn't there anymore
And remember, if in doubt or unsure of anything, always ASK the controller. They prefer it that way!
I never memorised the CARPER or TRPACER thing, it never worked for me! Instead I try to think about what I would want to know if I was the controller, it sometimes helps. I still have a reminder of 'vital info' typed on my flight log for those times when I get tongue-tied)!
You basically just need to find your own system. When you're out flying next, listen to other people's r/t, you'll soon realise that no-one's perfect!
Try to relax. My r/t used to be ten times better when my instructor wasn't there with me, for a couple of reasons:
1. I figured that I had to just get on with it as there was no-one else to help (In the scheme of things, does it really matter if you miss anything out? If you miss anything vital, the controller will ask, it's not the end of the world)
2. The pressure to 'get it right' from my instructor disappeared and the intimidation factor (no matter how small) wasn't there anymore
And remember, if in doubt or unsure of anything, always ASK the controller. They prefer it that way!
I never memorised the CARPER or TRPACER thing, it never worked for me! Instead I try to think about what I would want to know if I was the controller, it sometimes helps. I still have a reminder of 'vital info' typed on my flight log for those times when I get tongue-tied)!
You basically just need to find your own system. When you're out flying next, listen to other people's r/t, you'll soon realise that no-one's perfect!