Most Poorly Taught Section of PPL?
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I think the only bit of the syllabus we skimped was 'low flying', on the basis that 'too many guys around here do that anyway'.
Actually, I think it was a serious omission. As I subsequently discovered (!) flying low is very different. You have no usable horizon reference, and in strong winds drift over the ground becomes very apparent and can lead the unwary into stall/spin situations when turning downwind.
SSD
Actually, I think it was a serious omission. As I subsequently discovered (!) flying low is very different. You have no usable horizon reference, and in strong winds drift over the ground becomes very apparent and can lead the unwary into stall/spin situations when turning downwind.
SSD
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Fly Stimulator
Drop Out rates - This was an interesting thread.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=81480
No conclusive evidence, but the figures suggested that grabbed my attention was;
“>75% of all student pilots quit before completing the private license, and that >75% of all PPLs quit flying within five years of becoming licensed.”
SSD
Low-level flying – agreed. It is amazing just how more difficult it is to navigate VFR at 500’. I recollect about 1 hour devoted to it in my PPL, which was an eye-opener. You get to do about another hour in the IMC rating on bad weather circuits (500’) - which are loads of fun - and another good reason to do the IMC.
Drop Out rates - This was an interesting thread.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=81480
No conclusive evidence, but the figures suggested that grabbed my attention was;
“>75% of all student pilots quit before completing the private license, and that >75% of all PPLs quit flying within five years of becoming licensed.”
SSD
Low-level flying – agreed. It is amazing just how more difficult it is to navigate VFR at 500’. I recollect about 1 hour devoted to it in my PPL, which was an eye-opener. You get to do about another hour in the IMC rating on bad weather circuits (500’) - which are loads of fun - and another good reason to do the IMC.
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I think I'm quite lucky... my first (and longest duration) instructor insisted I was near-perfect on the radio, showed me a few spins and let me recover from one, positively LOVED me having to do wing-down on-the-limit crosswind landing (so lots of sideslip practice) and showed me what the mixture knob was for other than starting and stopping the air-conditioning fan on the front.
That said, when I passed my GFT I realised that I was really nervous about flying solo! So I guess he left the confidence bit out
Hersh
That said, when I passed my GFT I realised that I was really nervous about flying solo! So I guess he left the confidence bit out
Hersh
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For me:
Spins (exercise 11?)
Precautionary landings (ex 17)
There's the quality/quantity argument.
Do you teach all the syllabus, but not very well?
Do you teach most of the syllabus and do it really well?
Or should you teach all the syllabus and give the the student pilot a good grounding, before going off to the flight test?
Luckily, due to wx in part, I did the latter with experienced instructors. Pays to ask if you can do x/y/z exercise in the book too.
There's the old RAF ATC saying: "don't ask, don't get"
Spins (exercise 11?)
Precautionary landings (ex 17)
There's the quality/quantity argument.
Do you teach all the syllabus, but not very well?
Do you teach most of the syllabus and do it really well?
Or should you teach all the syllabus and give the the student pilot a good grounding, before going off to the flight test?
Luckily, due to wx in part, I did the latter with experienced instructors. Pays to ask if you can do x/y/z exercise in the book too.
There's the old RAF ATC saying: "don't ask, don't get"
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Fly Stimulator
One can see various figures on the CAA website showing the number of PPLs etc awarded each year, and the percentage that go on to do IMC or IR afterwards, and certain conclusions can perhaps be drawn from that. I once wrote to the CAA asking for dropout rates (because figures attributed to the CAA come up in the press from time to time) but they declined.
"CAA" figures I have seen were 75% of PPLs lapsing with an average of 10 hours flown, and 93% lapsing within 2 years. These certainly tally with what I have seen myself hanging around the training scene for a few years, and the latter was confirmed to me by a busy school which has been at it for many years.
My view is that large chunks of the absolutely ancient syllabus do need a rewrite if people are to come out trained to fly with confidence. However an equally desperate need is modern aircraft and that is just not going to happen because most of the training industry is virtually bankrupt. You could do it in rare situations e.g. a well funded and well managed school in a good catchment area and with no competition.
One can see various figures on the CAA website showing the number of PPLs etc awarded each year, and the percentage that go on to do IMC or IR afterwards, and certain conclusions can perhaps be drawn from that. I once wrote to the CAA asking for dropout rates (because figures attributed to the CAA come up in the press from time to time) but they declined.
"CAA" figures I have seen were 75% of PPLs lapsing with an average of 10 hours flown, and 93% lapsing within 2 years. These certainly tally with what I have seen myself hanging around the training scene for a few years, and the latter was confirmed to me by a busy school which has been at it for many years.
My view is that large chunks of the absolutely ancient syllabus do need a rewrite if people are to come out trained to fly with confidence. However an equally desperate need is modern aircraft and that is just not going to happen because most of the training industry is virtually bankrupt. You could do it in rare situations e.g. a well funded and well managed school in a good catchment area and with no competition.
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I note a number of you have raised the issue of R/T and how some of you feel thats badly taught or you feel ill prepared.
Most ATC units will welcome a visit from PPLs and those learning to fly , if you are uncertain about arranging the visit yourself I am sure your flying club could probably arrange something for you.
To talk to ATC face to face may take away some of the fear of talking on the R/T. They may also be able to give you some guidance on various phrases you may feel uncomfortable with.
R/T to us is a second language we use it day in day out and are very comfortable with it , but we are very aware that when you do not use it very often it can be a struggle.
If in doubt ask , we only bite sometimes
Most ATC units will welcome a visit from PPLs and those learning to fly , if you are uncertain about arranging the visit yourself I am sure your flying club could probably arrange something for you.
To talk to ATC face to face may take away some of the fear of talking on the R/T. They may also be able to give you some guidance on various phrases you may feel uncomfortable with.
R/T to us is a second language we use it day in day out and are very comfortable with it , but we are very aware that when you do not use it very often it can be a struggle.
If in doubt ask , we only bite sometimes
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dmjw01
I think you have put my thoughts better into words than my last post.
On the subject of leaning its the blind leading the blind if you ask most instructors, which is why it isn't taught.
Apart from the first effects of controls lesson they had for there PPL they will not have had to cover the subject until a 30sec demo in the FIC.
So I wouldn't say its the instructors fault for not teaching it. Its more the powers that be not deeming it worthy enough to include it any other training apart from the second lesson in his/her career.
MJ
I think you have put my thoughts better into words than my last post.
On the subject of leaning its the blind leading the blind if you ask most instructors, which is why it isn't taught.
Apart from the first effects of controls lesson they had for there PPL they will not have had to cover the subject until a 30sec demo in the FIC.
So I wouldn't say its the instructors fault for not teaching it. Its more the powers that be not deeming it worthy enough to include it any other training apart from the second lesson in his/her career.
MJ
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mad-jock has a point.
Engine leaning "must" be taught properly. In most light aircraft there is very little information to give you correct leaning information, EGT temps. have to be probed for each cylinder or it is pure guess work.
On engines with carbs such as C150's the carb heat is the best leaning check to ensure you are not to lean.
When I owned a flight school I had to put very strict rules on leaning because my cylinder repair costs were just out of hand.
Chuck E.
Engine leaning "must" be taught properly. In most light aircraft there is very little information to give you correct leaning information, EGT temps. have to be probed for each cylinder or it is pure guess work.
On engines with carbs such as C150's the carb heat is the best leaning check to ensure you are not to lean.
When I owned a flight school I had to put very strict rules on leaning because my cylinder repair costs were just out of hand.
Chuck E.
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It is probably correct to say that one cannot damage an engine by excessive leaning so long as one is below say 65% power.
While one must go by the POH in all cases as the #1 reference, Lycoming have a general recommendation to not lean above 75% power.
So a simple rule like: never lean during climb and never cruise above [some power setting, an RPM figure on a fixed pitch prop plane] might do.
But I think not teaching leaning is the least of the shortcomings of the PPL syllabus
While one must go by the POH in all cases as the #1 reference, Lycoming have a general recommendation to not lean above 75% power.
So a simple rule like: never lean during climb and never cruise above [some power setting, an RPM figure on a fixed pitch prop plane] might do.
But I think not teaching leaning is the least of the shortcomings of the PPL syllabus
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Well, I had to stop and think a bit about this one. On reflection, I realise I've had hardly any formal teaching, apart from practical flying!
When I got my PPL, 35 years ago, I was training in ATC, and it was assumed that the legal side, navigation, plotting, and Met. were covered there. We received probably about an hour of aerodynamics, and had a 10 question multi-choice written test (I think). We had to pass a separate R/T "airborne" exam, but that was pretty simple.
The rest was practical flying, including spins and cross country. I missed out on crosswind landing for some reason (still evident now! ). There was no instrument training at all. Minimum qualifying time was then 30 hours - that's exactly what we got - 30 hours and a PPL!
When I regained my PPL some 35 years laer, it was all self study with Trevor T. , the Confuser and MS2002 for instrument training. Regaining the licence was about 25 hours of flying and no ground school (averaged 95% in the exams though ). I had 30 minutes of instrument flying ground school and about 90 minutes of instrument flying before the skill test. Here's to MS2002 .
So its kinda difficult to say which was the worst, since whatever it was it must have been me.
When I got my PPL, 35 years ago, I was training in ATC, and it was assumed that the legal side, navigation, plotting, and Met. were covered there. We received probably about an hour of aerodynamics, and had a 10 question multi-choice written test (I think). We had to pass a separate R/T "airborne" exam, but that was pretty simple.
The rest was practical flying, including spins and cross country. I missed out on crosswind landing for some reason (still evident now!
). There was no instrument training at all. Minimum qualifying time was then 30 hours - that's exactly what we got - 30 hours and a PPL!When I regained my PPL some 35 years laer, it was all self study with Trevor T. , the Confuser and MS2002 for instrument training. Regaining the licence was about 25 hours of flying and no ground school (averaged 95% in the exams though
). I had 30 minutes of instrument flying ground school and about 90 minutes of instrument flying before the skill test. Here's to MS2002 .So its kinda difficult to say which was the worst, since whatever it was it must have been me.
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Poor to Good
Having been trained in South Africa I suppose I was both lucky in that they seem to teach a sylabus based on the old model - ie: pretty strict and very thorough. The only thing that seemed to be missing was familiarity to web site based Met Briefing - we just called a forcaster and asked for todays lies. On my return to the UK the Royal Flight info was the other issue.
I'd recommend Irv Lee's seminars as they explode all the myths of the PPL. Anything missed is soon revealed.
I'd recommend Irv Lee's seminars as they explode all the myths of the PPL. Anything missed is soon revealed.
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Helen D if your confused by NOTAMs and Flight Planning then perhaps you see the thread under the NOTAM section about a proposed visit to AIS at Heathrow.
Leaning engines is a mystry to me and I avoid it where possible - being mechanically challenged I'm convinced that the engine will stop (and I have sufficient history not to be able to mount a suitable defence against the prodding finger of an engineer, his case being based on prejudice, ie if I was near anything it would break regardless of my particpation in the event)
Leaning engines is a mystry to me and I avoid it where possible - being mechanically challenged I'm convinced that the engine will stop (and I have sufficient history not to be able to mount a suitable defence against the prodding finger of an engineer, his case being based on prejudice, ie if I was near anything it would break regardless of my particpation in the event)
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Leaning engines is a mystry to me and I avoid it where possible - being mechanically challenged I'm convinced that the engine will stop
On the general subject of PPL knowledge - I meet many new PPLs and they don't know the exactly same things I didn't know (but needed to) when I was at their stage! I think many instructors say they wished they'd known (whatever) when they were merely PPLs, and then the instructor-instructors will say they wish they had known something else when they were only instructors, and so it goes on.
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On the general subject of PPL knowledge - I meet many new PPLs and they don't know the exactly same things I didn't know (but needed to) when I was at their stage!
What were those things, Irv?
SSD
What were those things, Irv?
SSD
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What were those things, Irv?
I think it's safer for me to just say that when I got my licence I couldn't believe it - I thought I'd somehow slipped through the system - I knew there was so much I didn't know that I needed to know, but didn't actually know exactly what it was or I might have been able to read up about it or 'something'. I remember thinking: "hey, they've actually given me a pilot's licence - I wonder what will happen if they ever discover how much I don't know or understand about this". The learning experience after the PPL for fun flyers seemed to be years of 'learning by mistakes' or deliberately staying in limited known territory and getting bored
Today I still meet some new ppls like I was and they think (like I did) that they are the only ones.
