"Clear (Prop)" ?
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I reckon it couldn't hurt - i guess i'd always yell something - even though our hangar is in a quiet part of the a/d and the only people around are the other people in my course - Prob end up yelling clear prop when it's just us around and something else when we take friends for a ride .... seen pax have absolutely no reaction to "clear prop" 
in fact - they prob turn towards the sound 
in fact - they prob turn towards the sound
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North England
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a close one a few years back. I was sat in a Chippy waiting to tow the next glider, before starting shouted 'clear prop' at which point a couple of people shouted 'stop!' and quickly dragged a dog away that had decided to sit in front of the prop in my blind spot - it could have been a child. Anyone who fails to ensure its clear or issue a warning before starting is in my opinion acting dangerously.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
how about a recorded message played through an external speaker similar to the ones fitted on lorrys
instead of "WARNING VEHICLE REVERSING"
"CLEAR PROP ENGINE STARTING"
would only weigh a few pounds and could be fitted in the starter circuit so it is played every time
instead of "WARNING VEHICLE REVERSING"
"CLEAR PROP ENGINE STARTING"
would only weigh a few pounds and could be fitted in the starter circuit so it is played every time
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Notts, UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spot on, Keef!
Have always opened the window or DV panel (if possible) and yelled "Clear Prop!" at the top of my voice - and frequently deafen passngers when I forget to move the headset mike!
It's standard practice at Netherthorpe.....any of the EGNF pilots who didn't would probably be shot at dawn or something equally nasty by the instructors!
Have always opened the window or DV panel (if possible) and yelled "Clear Prop!" at the top of my voice - and frequently deafen passngers when I forget to move the headset mike!
It's standard practice at Netherthorpe.....any of the EGNF pilots who didn't would probably be shot at dawn or something equally nasty by the instructors!
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Personally i just think it is good airmanship to shout 'Clear Prop' (if not clear prop at least shout something out) then if anything happens at least you can say that you gave a warning
Personally i just think it is good airmanship to shout 'Clear Prop' (if not clear prop at least shout something out) then if anything happens at least you can say that you gave a warning
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hants, UK
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just another vote in favour of shouting. It gets everyone's attention even if the actual words might not be recognised.
But also a point about the use of anticollision lights. Of course they are a good idea: anything to increase awareness of others that this aircraft is about to start engines. Indeed, it is SOP for most commercial operations that ground crew will not approach the aircraft whilst the anti-colls are on, even if the engines are stopped (see story below).
However, I am stunned at how many times I see people who have just refuelled and are parked right next to the pumps go through their prestart checks and switch on the wing strobes (not selectable apart from the tail beacon on some Cherokees, for example.) It seems like a very bad idea to me to have a high ampage charge of electricity going off not three feet away from a fuel pump. Any sparks or vapour leakage and the world will get quite warm. Leave them off, shout 'Clear prop' and switch them on once you have moved away from the pumps.
Reference anti colls:
There is a story, maybe true, of a trip by HRH Prince Charles to an oil rig in the North Sea. I understand that is common practice for helicopters there to leave rotors running while they unload, and the clue to the deck crew that it is safe to approach the aircraft is the switching off of the anti-collision beacon.
Anyway, the day arrived, everyone was keen to ensure the visit of HRH went smoothly, and the Deck Landing Officer (or whatever he's called) was anxious that HRH should not be delayed exiting the aircraft. The helicopter arrived, and sat on the pad with engines winding down, but the anticoll still on. After trying to get the attention of the pilot, the exasperated deck officer eventually called up on the rig frequency:
"Turn your F***ing beacon off, you F***wit so I can approach the F***ing aircraft!!"
At which point the pilot removed his helmet to reveal: HRH
But also a point about the use of anticollision lights. Of course they are a good idea: anything to increase awareness of others that this aircraft is about to start engines. Indeed, it is SOP for most commercial operations that ground crew will not approach the aircraft whilst the anti-colls are on, even if the engines are stopped (see story below).
However, I am stunned at how many times I see people who have just refuelled and are parked right next to the pumps go through their prestart checks and switch on the wing strobes (not selectable apart from the tail beacon on some Cherokees, for example.) It seems like a very bad idea to me to have a high ampage charge of electricity going off not three feet away from a fuel pump. Any sparks or vapour leakage and the world will get quite warm. Leave them off, shout 'Clear prop' and switch them on once you have moved away from the pumps.
Reference anti colls:
There is a story, maybe true, of a trip by HRH Prince Charles to an oil rig in the North Sea. I understand that is common practice for helicopters there to leave rotors running while they unload, and the clue to the deck crew that it is safe to approach the aircraft is the switching off of the anti-collision beacon.
Anyway, the day arrived, everyone was keen to ensure the visit of HRH went smoothly, and the Deck Landing Officer (or whatever he's called) was anxious that HRH should not be delayed exiting the aircraft. The helicopter arrived, and sat on the pad with engines winding down, but the anticoll still on. After trying to get the attention of the pilot, the exasperated deck officer eventually called up on the rig frequency:
"Turn your F***ing beacon off, you F***wit so I can approach the F***ing aircraft!!"
At which point the pilot removed his helmet to reveal: HRH
PPruNaholic!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Buckinghamshire
Age: 61
Posts: 1,615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clear Prop!
I just like shouting, and this is one of the few legitimate chances I get to do so 
!
I agree as has been said above, why not do it? It might just make someone who's approached through your blind spot notice what's going on. I've often noticed other people adjacent to me on the ramp shout it and it has just reminded me to stay clear as I do my walk-around. Harmless at worst, safety enhancing at best.
I noticed that the practice in Australia (and by the sounds of it with some here) is also to turn on strobes or other lights prior to engine starts... makes sense I guess, but for some reason our club SOPs don't call for this until after engine-run up and vital actions etc. when "ready for departure".
Andy
!I agree as has been said above, why not do it? It might just make someone who's approached through your blind spot notice what's going on. I've often noticed other people adjacent to me on the ramp shout it and it has just reminded me to stay clear as I do my walk-around. Harmless at worst, safety enhancing at best.
I noticed that the practice in Australia (and by the sounds of it with some here) is also to turn on strobes or other lights prior to engine starts... makes sense I guess, but for some reason our club SOPs don't call for this until after engine-run up and vital actions etc. when "ready for departure".
Andy
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"ClearProp" - we liked the idea so much we bought the company (Check G-INFO if you what to see what I mean)
Always yell clear prop when starting.
Always flashing beacon / anti-coll lights on before starting.
Anything to attract attention to a potentially dangerous, soon-to-be-rotating propellor.
I remember when I did my MEP training I was told loads of reasons why you shoud start port-side first, ranging from the absurd ("we always do, and its the way I was taught"
), to the ridiculous ("the battery is on the LHS so the wires are shorter")
Maybe the real reason is because you can (generally) see very clearly who/what is around the port-side engine(s) so starting them first may alert someone who is sleeping near the RHS ones (which are less easily seen from P1 seat) to move out of the way...
(Check G-INFO if you what to see what I mean)Always yell clear prop when starting.
Always flashing beacon / anti-coll lights on before starting.
Anything to attract attention to a potentially dangerous, soon-to-be-rotating propellor.
I remember when I did my MEP training I was told loads of reasons why you shoud start port-side first, ranging from the absurd ("we always do, and its the way I was taught"
), to the ridiculous ("the battery is on the LHS so the wires are shorter")Maybe the real reason is because you can (generally) see very clearly who/what is around the port-side engine(s) so starting them first may alert someone who is sleeping near the RHS ones (which are less easily seen from P1 seat) to move out of the way...
eyeinthesky, totally agree with your comments concerning use of strobe lights near fuel installations but should one be starting engines in close proximity to such installations? I think starting is a high risk time for engine fire - better to push away from pumps before starting?
Re calling Clear Prop - cannot really think of any sensible reason why not! We also have liability to think off - just think of the lawyers having a field day if you don't give an aural warning and you injure/kill someone during start up.
Re calling Clear Prop - cannot really think of any sensible reason why not! We also have liability to think off - just think of the lawyers having a field day if you don't give an aural warning and you injure/kill someone during start up.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southern UK
Age: 64
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It could be construed as hijacking the thread
On the subject of props and emergency shutdowns whilst on the ground has anyone timed how long it takes for their prop to stop ?
1. Using the ICO
2. Using the Mags alone
Using the ICO on the Lycomings I fly behind it takes a pregnant 4 to 5 seconds before the prop is stationary.
In the nightmare scenario of Children/Dogs deaf people etc getting in your path whilst taxiing in at a fly in for example, how quickly could you make your machine safe?
Turboprops need not reply!
Wunper
On the subject of props and emergency shutdowns whilst on the ground has anyone timed how long it takes for their prop to stop ?
1. Using the ICO
2. Using the Mags alone
Using the ICO on the Lycomings I fly behind it takes a pregnant 4 to 5 seconds before the prop is stationary.
In the nightmare scenario of Children/Dogs deaf people etc getting in your path whilst taxiing in at a fly in for example, how quickly could you make your machine safe?
Turboprops need not reply!
Wunper
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 263
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
paulo
Sometime ago I walked from the hangar to my aircraft passing near some other stationary aircraft, suddenly a ‘Clear prop’ was shouted, it came from my 11 O’clock and 3m away. It did attract my attention. Years ago I have helped to vacate a guy who went through the prop of a C-206, the docs. Did a great job on him, he ‘only’ lost 6” of his right arm, I don’t know if the hand functions.
SHOUT as loud as you can!
Sometime ago I walked from the hangar to my aircraft passing near some other stationary aircraft, suddenly a ‘Clear prop’ was shouted, it came from my 11 O’clock and 3m away. It did attract my attention. Years ago I have helped to vacate a guy who went through the prop of a C-206, the docs. Did a great job on him, he ‘only’ lost 6” of his right arm, I don’t know if the hand functions.
SHOUT as loud as you can!
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now this 'debate' is simply silly. There is no reason at all for not shouting a warning, and at least several reasons why it should always be done (even when you KNOW that you are absolutely alone on an empty airstrip. It's kind of like saluting when crossing the deserted brow of a ship in the middle of the night ... a good habit to get into).
I do not feel at all self-concious about shouting "clear prop!" ("stand clear!" also makes sense to me, dmjw01). No one has ever made fun of me for this, but if they do I will just hand them my business card and say "keep this for reference when you get sued for killing someone: which will happen, sooner or later".
I do not feel at all self-concious about shouting "clear prop!" ("stand clear!" also makes sense to me, dmjw01). No one has ever made fun of me for this, but if they do I will just hand them my business card and say "keep this for reference when you get sued for killing someone: which will happen, sooner or later".
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: bedford
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have often thought "stand clear" would make more sense than "clear prop" as stated by dmjw01. I always shout and have never flown with an instructor who doesn't do so or would allow me not to!
Woodey
Woodey
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do it every time.
However, I never hear others doing it, and there are often people walking about the apron, betweeen closly parked aircraft to get to/from their mounts. Several times I have been walking towards my aircraft, and suddenly an aircraft just abeam of me starts up and makes me jump.
I always get funny (startled) looks when I do it, but I won't let that stop me.
However, I never hear others doing it, and there are often people walking about the apron, betweeen closly parked aircraft to get to/from their mounts. Several times I have been walking towards my aircraft, and suddenly an aircraft just abeam of me starts up and makes me jump.
I always get funny (startled) looks when I do it, but I won't let that stop me.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: surrey
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another vote in favour of shouting. I was taught to do it on day one and it has never even occurred to me not to (even on an allegedley deserted field).
I normally warn passengers in the Archer before screaming through the little air vent - it tends to echo around the cockpit for a while! No such probs in the Cessna.
Tall Guy.
I normally warn passengers in the Archer before screaming through the little air vent - it tends to echo around the cockpit for a while! No such probs in the Cessna.
Tall Guy.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Denham, EGLD
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When flying with an instructor in New Zealand recently I was asked (politely, but firmly) not to shout "Clear Prop" before starting as the instructor had flown with another Brit the week before and the shout scared the life out of him. I've had this odd behaviour confirmed by other pilots in NZ, but nobody could explain why. Perhaps sheep don't wander into spinning props?
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm another in the always shout "Clear Prop" camp but it reminds me of the story of the instructor in California who being lazy shortened it and taught his students to shout "Clear" only but without really explaining to them the reason for shouting and was surprised on a rare non CAVOK day when a student shouted "Cloudy".
grow45
grow45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Negative Charlie
Just because an instructor says something doesn't mean it is necessarily good airmanship.
An instructor in the US once asked me to change tanks when we were positioning for departure on the runway following a full stop during a circuit detail. We could have stopped at the run up area, but this guy didn't see the need for another power check.
I gave him some pretty polite but firm feedback about that.
If an instructor asked me not to shout clear prop, we would be having a discussion about why (becuase I don't have the monopoly on knowledge and there might be a good reason), but if I wasn't satisfied I be thinking quite seriously whether I wanted to fly with the guy/gal.
Just because an instructor says something doesn't mean it is necessarily good airmanship.
An instructor in the US once asked me to change tanks when we were positioning for departure on the runway following a full stop during a circuit detail. We could have stopped at the run up area, but this guy didn't see the need for another power check.
I gave him some pretty polite but firm feedback about that.
If an instructor asked me not to shout clear prop, we would be having a discussion about why (becuase I don't have the monopoly on knowledge and there might be a good reason), but if I wasn't satisfied I be thinking quite seriously whether I wanted to fly with the guy/gal.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Denham, EGLD
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F3G,
I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have any first hand experience, but I'm pretty sure that instructors put their trousers on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us.
In this case I took the instructor's opinion into consideration, shouted "Clear Prop" loud enough to wake the dead, then apologised for having disturbed him. No point in letting these colonials get away with lowering standards, what?
I couldn't agree with you more. I don't have any first hand experience, but I'm pretty sure that instructors put their trousers on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us.
In this case I took the instructor's opinion into consideration, shouted "Clear Prop" loud enough to wake the dead, then apologised for having disturbed him. No point in letting these colonials get away with lowering standards, what?