Can someone help with clarification
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Can someone help with clarification
I wrote to the Direction Aviation Civile Nord to ask the following questions:
1) can I use an IMC rating in France
2) Can I fly a G reg plane IFR exercising the privileges of an FAA IR while in French airspace
Can someone help me decypher this reply please?
What exactly is a validation that is being talked about?
Rgds
EA
PS No you can't use the IMC rating in France...but it was worth a try
1) can I use an IMC rating in France
2) Can I fly a G reg plane IFR exercising the privileges of an FAA IR while in French airspace
Can someone help me decypher this reply please?
Secondly, to fly on a F registered aircraft, a French validation of your FAA- licence is needed in order to use your FAA Instrument and Multi-engined Ratings (as a private aim only). However, to perform this validation, a copy of a valid resident card in a non-EEE state and other documents are requested.
Finally, if you want to pilot a G registered aircraft in French airspace with your FAA Instrument and Multi-engined Ratings, a British validation is requested.
Finally, if you want to pilot a G registered aircraft in French airspace with your FAA Instrument and Multi-engined Ratings, a British validation is requested.
Rgds
EA
PS No you can't use the IMC rating in France...but it was worth a try
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Anywhere
What they're saying is they want a licence or certificate (in the same way that you can get a US licence issued on the basis of a foreign PPL) issued in the same nationality of the aircraft being flown, or some form of paperwork conferring the privileges by that state, for you to use those licence privileges in a foreign aircraft.
So, what you need is a a UK licence with IR for a 'G' reg aircraft, French licence for an 'F'.
Now - if you had an 'N' reg aircraft you'd have no problems, License and aircraft being of the same state.
So, what you need is a a UK licence with IR for a 'G' reg aircraft, French licence for an 'F'.
Now - if you had an 'N' reg aircraft you'd have no problems, License and aircraft being of the same state.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
Ah, I see....I just wonder why they want a
for the F validation.
Wonder if this means that if you live outside Europe, you can get an IR 'validation' without undergoing any sort of test / exams?
Cheers
EA
Just found something else on the web which might be of interest to someone...
Cheers
EA
*********************************
Question 2: What does the DGAC need to perform a validation of a foreign ICAO licence (To allow a pilot to fly on a French registred aircraft with a validation of his foreign licence)
Answer :
EEE: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Danemark, Spain, Finland, France, Greece,
Irland, Iceland, Italy, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands,
Portugal, UK, Sweden, Switzerland.
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| | original licence | original licence |
| | delivered by EEE state | delivered by a non EEE |
| | | state |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| Pilot belonging to EEE | 1 | 2 |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| Pilot not belonging to | 3 | 3 |
| EEE | | |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
1 : The pilot can fly nothing is requested
2 : a validation is needed with a Copy of the resident card valid in the
non-EEE state
3 : a validation is needed
Documents needed for a validation of ICAO licence:
Copy of the licence (not a temporary licence)
Copy of medical certificate
Copy of the last page of the log book with the sum of hours done
Copy of the passeport or identity card
2 photos
A letter requesting the validation in which appears the adress (abroad) and in France.
Make clear to which adress you want the validation sent.
**********************************************
a copy of a valid resident card in a non-EEE state
Wonder if this means that if you live outside Europe, you can get an IR 'validation' without undergoing any sort of test / exams?
Cheers
EA
Just found something else on the web which might be of interest to someone...
Cheers
EA
*********************************
Question 2: What does the DGAC need to perform a validation of a foreign ICAO licence (To allow a pilot to fly on a French registred aircraft with a validation of his foreign licence)
Answer :
EEE: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Danemark, Spain, Finland, France, Greece,
Irland, Iceland, Italy, Lichtenstein, Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands,
Portugal, UK, Sweden, Switzerland.
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| | original licence | original licence |
| | delivered by EEE state | delivered by a non EEE |
| | | state |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| Pilot belonging to EEE | 1 | 2 |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
| Pilot not belonging to | 3 | 3 |
| EEE | | |
|------------------------+------------------------+------------------------|
1 : The pilot can fly nothing is requested
2 : a validation is needed with a Copy of the resident card valid in the
non-EEE state
3 : a validation is needed
Documents needed for a validation of ICAO licence:
Copy of the licence (not a temporary licence)
Copy of medical certificate
Copy of the last page of the log book with the sum of hours done
Copy of the passeport or identity card
2 photos
A letter requesting the validation in which appears the adress (abroad) and in France.
Make clear to which adress you want the validation sent.
**********************************************
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 2
From: UK
EA
The "British validation" mentioned is automatic (requires no paperwork) but has limitations. Art 21(4) renders an ICAO licence issued by another state valid for private flights, except for IFR in controlled airspace.
Unfortunately that means that your FAA IR is not much use for flight in a G-reg in France.
The F-reg issue is that the French authorities require a validation of any foreign licence that is not an EU (effectively JAA) licence issued to an EU citizen. Further, if the holder is an EU citizen seeking to use a non-EU licence, they require proof that the holder is resident in the state of issue. So if you're resident in the UK, they will not validate an FAA licence for use on F-reg. Presumably, since you're not wanting to fly an F-reg it doesn't matter.
The "British validation" mentioned is automatic (requires no paperwork) but has limitations. Art 21(4) renders an ICAO licence issued by another state valid for private flights, except for IFR in controlled airspace.
Unfortunately that means that your FAA IR is not much use for flight in a G-reg in France.
The F-reg issue is that the French authorities require a validation of any foreign licence that is not an EU (effectively JAA) licence issued to an EU citizen. Further, if the holder is an EU citizen seeking to use a non-EU licence, they require proof that the holder is resident in the state of issue. So if you're resident in the UK, they will not validate an FAA licence for use on F-reg. Presumably, since you're not wanting to fly an F-reg it doesn't matter.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 2
From: UK
Quite so blueskis. I offer my apologies to any Norwegians, Icelanders, Swiss or Lichtenstinians offended by their omission.
Nevertheless, I suspect the measure comes from the Council Directive 91/670/EEC of 16 December 1991 that required mutual recognition of EEC licences.
Nevertheless, I suspect the measure comes from the Council Directive 91/670/EEC of 16 December 1991 that required mutual recognition of EEC licences.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
I think this may be down to a JAA rule which limits national authorities to only approving licenses for their own residents, or outside whatever definition of Europe is in use. So France can issue paperwork to somebody resident in France, or resident in the US, but not to either a Frenchman resident in the UK, or a Brit resident in the UK.
Causes many problems that one, and does nothing to maintain a level regulatory playing field within Europe.
G
Causes many problems that one, and does nothing to maintain a level regulatory playing field within Europe.
G
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
From: 75N 16E
Thanks for the replies.... I don't have any intention of flying an F reg, however from the reply from the nice lady at DGA it looked like you could be issued a French validation of the IR if you lived out side of the EEE. Now to me this seems a bit strange, if you live outside the EEE, the French will 'recognize' your foreign IR and other ratings at PPL level [same as the US does with us] which will allow you to fly unrestricted in Europe, but if you are an EEE citizen, they won't?
Cheers
EA
Cheers
EA
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,498
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From: Witnesham, Suffolk
To plagiarise a certain expert on here ... since when did it have to make sense?
You fly a G-reg? Want to fly IFR outside the UK? You need a CAA or JAA IR.
Got an FAA IR? So get your claws on an N-reg aircraft.
Ours is switching to N-reg at the next C of A renewal date. Means we can use our FAA IRs, and also don't have to have the prop vandalised every six years (that's due at the C of A).
My next worry is that I can foresee the day when an EEC resident won't be allowed to fly an N-reg on an FAA licence.
You fly a G-reg? Want to fly IFR outside the UK? You need a CAA or JAA IR.
Got an FAA IR? So get your claws on an N-reg aircraft.
Ours is switching to N-reg at the next C of A renewal date. Means we can use our FAA IRs, and also don't have to have the prop vandalised every six years (that's due at the C of A).
My next worry is that I can foresee the day when an EEC resident won't be allowed to fly an N-reg on an FAA licence.
