SVFR
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SVFR
As I get older, and the neuron pathways deconstruct, I find I forget things I once knew. Or I forget how I know things I think I know.
I think I know that SVFR minima for UK PPLs are 10nm for those without an IMC rating, and 3nm for those with. I don't know why I think that. Nor do I know what the SVFR minima are for UK PPLs flying in foreign parts. Are they the foreign SVFR PPL minima, or something uniquely UK? Does JAR apply?
So I dug out the UK FAR/AIM (which must qualify as the book with the worst index in the English-speaking world). Nowhere in there could I find ANYTHING about SVFR minima, except for ENR 1.2 which says an SVFR clearance won't be issued if vis is 1800m or less and/or the cloud ceiling is less than 600 feet. To me, that implies the SVFR minimum vis is somewhere around 1800m.
I looked in my Bottlang under "National peculiarities". What a wonderful title! That said no more than does ENR 1.2.
So I looked at some plates in said Bottlang, and the one for Le Touquet quotes"SVFR minima with IFR traffic" which differ depending on which route you are flying. Route N is 2000m, routes E and S are 1500m (800m for helicopters).
So I'm leaving LFAT on a murky Saturday afternoon. I'm a UK PPL, with an IMC rating (which as we all know is not valid in France). I'm going to route to N then DVR under SVFR. Are my minima 10km, 3km, or 2km? How do I find out? Does it matter?
Maybe I should dedicate the next six months of my life to producing a meaningful index to the UK FAR/AIM so folks can find what they are looking for.
I think I know that SVFR minima for UK PPLs are 10nm for those without an IMC rating, and 3nm for those with. I don't know why I think that. Nor do I know what the SVFR minima are for UK PPLs flying in foreign parts. Are they the foreign SVFR PPL minima, or something uniquely UK? Does JAR apply?
So I dug out the UK FAR/AIM (which must qualify as the book with the worst index in the English-speaking world). Nowhere in there could I find ANYTHING about SVFR minima, except for ENR 1.2 which says an SVFR clearance won't be issued if vis is 1800m or less and/or the cloud ceiling is less than 600 feet. To me, that implies the SVFR minimum vis is somewhere around 1800m.
I looked in my Bottlang under "National peculiarities". What a wonderful title! That said no more than does ENR 1.2.
So I looked at some plates in said Bottlang, and the one for Le Touquet quotes"SVFR minima with IFR traffic" which differ depending on which route you are flying. Route N is 2000m, routes E and S are 1500m (800m for helicopters).
So I'm leaving LFAT on a murky Saturday afternoon. I'm a UK PPL, with an IMC rating (which as we all know is not valid in France). I'm going to route to N then DVR under SVFR. Are my minima 10km, 3km, or 2km? How do I find out? Does it matter?
Maybe I should dedicate the next six months of my life to producing a meaningful index to the UK FAR/AIM so folks can find what they are looking for.
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Air Navigation Order - schedule 8.
ANO Sect 1/172 (that's page 172)
Link to VERY big book
Short answer: 10km inside controlled airspace (CAS)
.....but if that CAS is not Class A then do it IFR on your IMC rating. Zero vis. (not a good idea - but legal)
ANO Sect 1/172 (that's page 172)
Link to VERY big book
Short answer: 10km inside controlled airspace (CAS)
.....but if that CAS is not Class A then do it IFR on your IMC rating. Zero vis. (not a good idea - but legal)
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Keef
"Maybe I should dedicate the next six months of my life to producing a meaningful index to the UK FAR/AIM so folks can find what they are looking for"
SNAP!
This came up on t'other thread about Notams too.
"Plain text" searches, context searches - all remarkably straightforward and would help no end in finding the information you want - and they're not 21st century things...
Infact, the cheap and cheerful way to do it would be for NATS/AIS/CAA to allow Google et al to catalogue their pages then you could type your query into Google and it would find the answer (from any/all of those sources - even PDFs)
Edit: In the example solution above even the (already tenuous) "3rd party data" worries are a non-issue, because the search engine will be pointing at the source.
But there's probably a really good reason they won't allow that to happen...
"Maybe I should dedicate the next six months of my life to producing a meaningful index to the UK FAR/AIM so folks can find what they are looking for"
SNAP!
This came up on t'other thread about Notams too.
"Plain text" searches, context searches - all remarkably straightforward and would help no end in finding the information you want - and they're not 21st century things...
Infact, the cheap and cheerful way to do it would be for NATS/AIS/CAA to allow Google et al to catalogue their pages then you could type your query into Google and it would find the answer (from any/all of those sources - even PDFs)
Edit: In the example solution above even the (already tenuous) "3rd party data" worries are a non-issue, because the search engine will be pointing at the source.
But there's probably a really good reason they won't allow that to happen...
Last edited by rustle; 14th Mar 2003 at 07:37.
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Just to clarify the UK ....
Rule One of the ANO (off the top of my head...!)
"A VFR flight made at any time in a Class A Control Zone or in any other Control Zone in IMC or night, in respect of which blah blah blah"
Point here is that SVFR is only in a CTZ. The minima of 1800m/600ft is for fixed wing INBOUNDS to an airport, based on the airport Met. Some airfields have different minima, such as Heathrow does.
Is that of any help?
Rule One of the ANO (off the top of my head...!)
"A VFR flight made at any time in a Class A Control Zone or in any other Control Zone in IMC or night, in respect of which blah blah blah"
Point here is that SVFR is only in a CTZ. The minima of 1800m/600ft is for fixed wing INBOUNDS to an airport, based on the airport Met. Some airfields have different minima, such as Heathrow does.
Is that of any help?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Keygrip,
He can't fly IFR, because he's flying in France, and his ICM rating isn't valid there! However, your link does provide the answers.
Keef,
In the document which Keygrip links to, on page 191 is Schedule 8, Part A - Licenses, 1 - Aeroplane Pilots, Private Pilot's License (Aeroplanes), c:
Since you have an IMC rating, we also need to refer to page 208, Schedule 8, Part B - Ratings:
Since you are not "within the United Kingdom", this does not apply. So my interpretation is that you must have 10km vis in the situation you describe.
Have fun!
FFF
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He can't fly IFR, because he's flying in France, and his ICM rating isn't valid there! However, your link does provide the answers.
Keef,
In the document which Keygrip links to, on page 191 is Schedule 8, Part A - Licenses, 1 - Aeroplane Pilots, Private Pilot's License (Aeroplanes), c:
He shall not, unless his licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command of such an aeroplane:
...
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of this sub-paragraph;
...
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10 km except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of this sub-paragraph;
Instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) shall within the United Kingdom:
.....entitle.......
(c) the holder shall not fly:
(i) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 3 km;
.....entitle.......
(c) the holder shall not fly:
(i) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 3 km;
Have fun!
FFF
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Thanks, folks! With these answers plus offline guidance from bookworm, I'm now clear.
I find the UK AIM infuriating - everything's in there, but unless you know the answer, it's a devil to try and find it. The index is zero help. It reminds me of early computer manuals - designed for the expert to refresh his memory on the precise details of specifics; little help to the enthusiastic student who wants to learn.
But, AB, rest assured the dissertation will be finished before any work on indices...
I find the UK AIM infuriating - everything's in there, but unless you know the answer, it's a devil to try and find it. The index is zero help. It reminds me of early computer manuals - designed for the expert to refresh his memory on the precise details of specifics; little help to the enthusiastic student who wants to learn.
But, AB, rest assured the dissertation will be finished before any work on indices...
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FFF - good shout - but as he was reading the UK books, I assumed the question was for the bit (after DVR) within UK airspace - no point looking up French airspace rules in the UK book.
Having said that - you would be more correct with the 3nm (as an IMC holder) if electing not to go IFR.
Having said that - you would be more correct with the 3nm (as an IMC holder) if electing not to go IFR.
