Anyone interested in a Fiat Warbird group?
Not so N, but still FG
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Anyone interested in a Fiat Warbird group? (or something else old and whacky)
Tony Bianchi at Wycombe is offering for sale a restored Fiat fighter trainer dating from 1950, with an Alfa Romeo licence-built Gipsy Six 225 hp engine. It is pictured in Pilot mag, looking dinky in an Italian WW2 camouflage scheme. It's a tandem two seater, retractable, tailwheel, 160 kts cruise. I assume that it has a wobbly prop. OK, so it's not a fer-real warbird, but it is interesting and (extremely) rare. Might be amusing to park at Airshows and fly-ins. Oh, and to fly, as well. I have a rough idea of how much they might be asking for it, but haven't checked as yet. I think that it might call for a group of six or more like-minded souls. Are any of you lot interested? If so, pplease email me via my pprune pprofile ppage.
PS: As thread-starter, I feel that I should exercise the privilege of deploying the Italian warbird "does it fly backwards?" gag (copyright 1939-1943)
Edit: here is a link to Mr Bianchi's website, which pictures the aircraft and asks for £130K
http://www.bianchiaviation.com/
Edit: Here is a bigger and clearer picture taken at Duxford http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow01/duxford/fiat.htm
PS: As thread-starter, I feel that I should exercise the privilege of deploying the Italian warbird "does it fly backwards?" gag (copyright 1939-1943)
Edit: here is a link to Mr Bianchi's website, which pictures the aircraft and asks for £130K
http://www.bianchiaviation.com/
Edit: Here is a bigger and clearer picture taken at Duxford http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow01/duxford/fiat.htm
Last edited by FNG; 27th Feb 2003 at 15:59.
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Not wishing to pour cold water on your burning desires, but:
Ever wonder why it's been up for sale for months, and hasnt sold yet? Rare aeroplane = £££££££££££££££
Get a Harvard instead, more bang for your bucks and cheaper..........
And an engine that costs about £20 in the states, plentiful spares, etc etc
I wish you well
Ever wonder why it's been up for sale for months, and hasnt sold yet? Rare aeroplane = £££££££££££££££
Get a Harvard instead, more bang for your bucks and cheaper..........
And an engine that costs about £20 in the states, plentiful spares, etc etc
I wish you well
Not so N, but still FG
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Gosh, that wasn't patronising at all. There was me thinking that old aeroplanes ran on love and fairy dust, but along comes some expert to reveal that they run on money. The proposal is not intended as a money-saving scheme. The idea is to spend cash and have fun.
Last edited by FNG; 25th Feb 2003 at 06:03.
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FNG,
Sorry didnt mean to offend or sound patronising, just being realistic! I am always impressed by the sensitivity of pilots on pprune!
If you look in the aviation classified ads, there's a guy who's been trying to sell a Percival Prentice for years, (as long as I can remember, but at least 10 years), or to exchange it for a Cessna 182. Ever wonder why he's never managed to sell it?
As I said, I wish you well..
I take it you've never owned anything like this before?
Sorry didnt mean to offend or sound patronising, just being realistic! I am always impressed by the sensitivity of pilots on pprune!
If you look in the aviation classified ads, there's a guy who's been trying to sell a Percival Prentice for years, (as long as I can remember, but at least 10 years), or to exchange it for a Cessna 182. Ever wonder why he's never managed to sell it?
As I said, I wish you well..
I take it you've never owned anything like this before?
I love flying interesting aeroplanes, including interesting old aeroplanes. So far I've been privileged in having the opportunity to exercise this desire in other peoples' - one of the benefits of my job I suppose. I have once circumbed and bought an interesting vintage aircraft, which I learned a lot from, then discovered nobody at-all wanted to buy it so am currently lumbered with a half share in a single seater sat in the back of a hangar at Kemble.
So, if you do go ahead with such a project and need somebody to do any CAA approval work, give me a call. But with my own money, sadly no. (And anyway, Mrs. Genghis has pointed out that I have three aeroplanes already, and that is at-least 1 too many).
G
So, if you do go ahead with such a project and need somebody to do any CAA approval work, give me a call. But with my own money, sadly no. (And anyway, Mrs. Genghis has pointed out that I have three aeroplanes already, and that is at-least 1 too many).
G
FNG the Fiat sounds like great fun but it's a bit rich for my blood unfortunately. How about starting a group around the Nord Nor Alpha that PPS has for sale? Should be a more manageable prospect than the Fiat at 35k and it's more easily supported with bits etc. Plus if the engine goes phut there is a Lycoming conversion available.
Genghis what's this interesting single seater sitting at Kemble then?
Genghis what's this interesting single seater sitting at Kemble then?
Last edited by LowNSlow; 26th Feb 2003 at 06:25.
Not so N, but still FG
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Thanks for those contributions, and thanks to those who have replied by Private Message. For further information, here are links to Italian and German websites describing the type. The translations are by Google, hence the slight infelicities of English expression
http://translate.google.com/translat...8%26oe%3DUTF-8
http://translate.google.com/translat...8%26oe%3DUTF-8
Genghis, thanks for the offer of approval help. If this ever came off, you would be welcome to fly the aeroplane.
LownSlow, I missed the Nord on the PPS site, I'll have a look. I still think it's a pity that only you and I wanted to buy that Argus last year.
On a general note, group ownership of aircraft such as this seems a little less common than it is amongst more ordinary aircraft. They are often bought, I suppose, as toys by individuals with spare capital lying around. The City has a sniffle at present and big bonuses are rare, so shifting aircraft of this kind will be more difficult at present than it might be in more bullish times.
http://translate.google.com/translat...8%26oe%3DUTF-8
http://translate.google.com/translat...8%26oe%3DUTF-8
Genghis, thanks for the offer of approval help. If this ever came off, you would be welcome to fly the aeroplane.
LownSlow, I missed the Nord on the PPS site, I'll have a look. I still think it's a pity that only you and I wanted to buy that Argus last year.
On a general note, group ownership of aircraft such as this seems a little less common than it is amongst more ordinary aircraft. They are often bought, I suppose, as toys by individuals with spare capital lying around. The City has a sniffle at present and big bonuses are rare, so shifting aircraft of this kind will be more difficult at present than it might be in more bullish times.
Last edited by FNG; 27th Feb 2003 at 07:50.
Interesting single seater
It's a Eurowing Goldwing, built in 1983 at East Kilbride in the early days of UK microlighting.
Currently in need of a couple of days TLC and a re-permit before the flying season starts.
G
Currently in need of a couple of days TLC and a re-permit before the flying season starts.
G
Genghis That looks very interesting. Is that the beast that you said scares you everytime you fly her 
FNG yup, pity about the Argus. She's still out there if interest should increase with the start of the flying season......
The Nord NorAlpha is the licence built version of the Me208 of which there were only 2 built (Me's that is). It retains the 4 seater Me109 look of the Me 108 but with a tricycle retractable undercarriage. This may not be as much fun as a taildragger but I'm sure we all know the Me 109's, and to a lesser extent the 108's, reputation for undercarriage removing ground loops. Plus the French Aeronavale livery should be quite an eyecatching one.
FNG yup, pity about the Argus. She's still out there if interest should increase with the start of the flying season......
The Nord NorAlpha is the licence built version of the Me208 of which there were only 2 built (Me's that is). It retains the 4 seater Me109 look of the Me 108 but with a tricycle retractable undercarriage. This may not be as much fun as a taildragger but I'm sure we all know the Me 109's, and to a lesser extent the 108's, reputation for undercarriage removing ground loops. Plus the French Aeronavale livery should be quite an eyecatching one.
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LowNSlow
What's all this talk about a French fancy of yours. I thought you are an Auster man through and through.
Better not let the wife know your thinking about another plane. How would she get her new kitchen then ?
What's all this talk about a French fancy of yours. I thought you are an Auster man through and through.
Better not let the wife know your thinking about another plane. How would she get her new kitchen then ?
That's the one.
Actually, apart from innefective rudders, non-linear roll control, minimal pitch stability, tendency to pitch PIO on take-off, and inability to recover from the stall without using power, it's quite fun. Performance is quite sparkling - 55kn cruise and 700fpm climb of a 32hp engine, plus a 13:1 glide.
Not a good sales pitch I'll grant, but I'd pretty much given up on that. Remarkably, the type has a near-perfect safety record.
G
Actually, apart from innefective rudders, non-linear roll control, minimal pitch stability, tendency to pitch PIO on take-off, and inability to recover from the stall without using power, it's quite fun. Performance is quite sparkling - 55kn cruise and 700fpm climb of a 32hp engine, plus a 13:1 glide.
Not a good sales pitch I'll grant, but I'd pretty much given up on that. Remarkably, the type has a near-perfect safety record.
G
Oscar Deuce hopefully I'll be getting the kitchen done cheaper than originally planned (yeah right ) . I can then scrape together a 6th share stake for the French floozy whilst still keeping the English rose called the Auster 
Genghis sounds like an interesting craft you have there flying an R22 should be a piece of cake after a few hours in her. 
) . I can then scrape together a 6th share stake for the French floozy whilst still keeping the English rose called the Auster Genghis sounds like an interesting craft you have there
flying an R22 should be a piece of cake after a few hours in her.
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LowNSlow
Ok so the French fancy looks reasonable for the money, and plenty of size. (rudder looks a bit small ?).
But for us stalwarts of the best of British. What about that prentice mentioned earlier.. Very big 4 seater, well kitted out and 'asking' 40 K (in last Pf I think).
Ok so the French fancy looks reasonable for the money, and plenty of size. (rudder looks a bit small ?).
But for us stalwarts of the best of British. What about that prentice mentioned earlier.. Very big 4 seater, well kitted out and 'asking' 40 K (in last Pf I think).
Mmm Prentice. Don't think so. I've spoken to a chap who has a few hours on them. His comment was that it makes a lovely noise but nothing else is good about it. Typically British 50's aircraft, overweight, underpowered and only takes off due to the curvature of the earth allowing the ground to slowly fall away from underneath it.
Old Warden has a rather rotten article which is going to tie up a few bodies for a few years to get it flying. I wonder how much extra runway they will need when they get it flying.
I'd rather the Auster AOP9 that was in PF etc for 30k if I was going the British route. Mmmmm how about a group around that then. Takes off like a scalded cat, cruises at around 110knts, pukka mil history and beatifully restored. Oh yes, it comes with a pile of bits and a spare zero timed engine as I recall?
Old Warden has a rather rotten article which is going to tie up a few bodies for a few years to get it flying. I wonder how much extra runway they will need when they get it flying.
I'd rather the Auster AOP9 that was in PF etc for 30k if I was going the British route. Mmmmm how about a group around that then. Takes off like a scalded cat, cruises at around 110knts, pukka mil history and beatifully restored. Oh yes, it comes with a pile of bits and a spare zero timed engine as I recall?
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LownSlow
AOP9 ah.. Sounds tempting. I could spare £5k for that (would delay new engine for AP), if it wasn't to far away. Never been in one though. Spare engine as well you say..
But I see there was littel interest in that Argus, although that was £45k ?.
AOP9 ah.. Sounds tempting. I could spare £5k for that (would delay new engine for AP), if it wasn't to far away. Never been in one though. Spare engine as well you say..
But I see there was littel interest in that Argus, although that was £45k ?.
Not so N, but still FG
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Fiat...or something else old and whacky
Well, if anyone wants to re-kindle interest in the Argus, I would still be keen. Might be possible to negotiate on price given the period it has been up for sale. For some reason I fancy it more than the Auster or the Nord. Perhaps it is the wind-up windows! Very large and comfortable cabin, and reasonably STOL by all accounts. Looks great, to my eyes. I like driving behind six cylinders on the ground, and would be interested in doing likewise in the air.
