Help with night flying!
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Join Date: Jan 2003
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Help with night flying!
Hi everybody. I'm halfway through my PPL training and yesterday I had my first lesson for Night Qualification. I must say it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life! I almost got tears in my eyes. It was truly amazing....except for the landing...
I basically flew the plane into the runway since I had no experience judging the flare height at night, I thought we were much higher than we were. My CFI said it was ok, since everybody does it the first time. How ever, the second and third landing went a bit better, still it was very hard to judge the height. We also had a bit of crosswind and windshear and that didn't make things easier.
Has anyone any tips and hints to make the landing a bit easier??
Or perhaps it will come to you eventually, how to judge the height?
Thanks!
Henrik
I basically flew the plane into the runway since I had no experience judging the flare height at night, I thought we were much higher than we were. My CFI said it was ok, since everybody does it the first time. How ever, the second and third landing went a bit better, still it was very hard to judge the height. We also had a bit of crosswind and windshear and that didn't make things easier.
Has anyone any tips and hints to make the landing a bit easier??
Or perhaps it will come to you eventually, how to judge the height?
Thanks!
Henrik
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Henrik,
The trick is exactly the same as during the day. Look down the runway at the overall shape of the runway lights - don't look too close to the plane, and don't look for detail.
The problem is that many pilots don't look down the runway. During the day, there are enough visual clues about what's going on that if you don't look far enough ahead, you'll be able to pull off an ok-ish landing, although you won't ever really have a feel for what's going on. But at night, all those clues disappear, and the only way you'll be able to judge what's happening in the flare is to look well ahead.
Once you've mastered this technique at night, use it during the day too, and you'll find your landings become much more consistant. At least, that's the way it worked for me!
Have fun,
FFF
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The trick is exactly the same as during the day. Look down the runway at the overall shape of the runway lights - don't look too close to the plane, and don't look for detail.
The problem is that many pilots don't look down the runway. During the day, there are enough visual clues about what's going on that if you don't look far enough ahead, you'll be able to pull off an ok-ish landing, although you won't ever really have a feel for what's going on. But at night, all those clues disappear, and the only way you'll be able to judge what's happening in the flare is to look well ahead.
Once you've mastered this technique at night, use it during the day too, and you'll find your landings become much more consistant. At least, that's the way it worked for me!
Have fun,
FFF
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Prior to take off, look sideways out of the windows. That is where you need to be on landing! (Probably the best landing at night tip I have ever had.)
Also, use the descent angle lights (if available) such as PAPI (Precision Approach Path Indicators) or VASIs (Visual Approach Slope Indicators) which will allow you to get your final approach under control from the top of your final turn. Like all things related to flying, if you start early and get ahead of the aeroplane, things generally work out better!
Use the taxi or landing lights! That's what they are there for.
I'm sure that with a couple of solid circuits under your belt, the whole 'division of attention' thing will improve measurably.
Relax, get the aeroplane under control at the top of your final turn, divide your attention between inside and outside all the way down and enjoy it.
Also, use the descent angle lights (if available) such as PAPI (Precision Approach Path Indicators) or VASIs (Visual Approach Slope Indicators) which will allow you to get your final approach under control from the top of your final turn. Like all things related to flying, if you start early and get ahead of the aeroplane, things generally work out better!
Use the taxi or landing lights! That's what they are there for.
I'm sure that with a couple of solid circuits under your belt, the whole 'division of attention' thing will improve measurably.
Relax, get the aeroplane under control at the top of your final turn, divide your attention between inside and outside all the way down and enjoy it.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Silvereagle,
Why? You are right - this is where you need to be when landing. But it's not where you need to look.
I'd suggest looking forward, along the runway, before taking off - because that's roughly the picture you want to see during the flare. In a tricycle it's not exactly the right picture, because the nose will be higher on landing - but it can be useful anyway. But I think that to suggest that the view out the side is at all relevant is mis-leading. However, it obviously works for you, so I won't dis-count it completely!
FFF
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Prior to take off, look sideways out of the windows
I'd suggest looking forward, along the runway, before taking off - because that's roughly the picture you want to see during the flare. In a tricycle it's not exactly the right picture, because the nose will be higher on landing - but it can be useful anyway. But I think that to suggest that the view out the side is at all relevant is mis-leading. However, it obviously works for you, so I won't dis-count it completely!
FFF
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Henrik
I second FFF's and expide climb's comments. Everytime I gotten checked out in a different plane, I look too close to trying to judge the height over the ground, and end up making terrible landings. It's only when I remember my first flight instructor telling me to look down the runway, and force myself to do it, that every suddenly turns right!!!!
So try to force yourself to look down the runway, not near you. You probably do this during the day anyway, just don't realise it
I second FFF's and expide climb's comments. Everytime I gotten checked out in a different plane, I look too close to trying to judge the height over the ground, and end up making terrible landings. It's only when I remember my first flight instructor telling me to look down the runway, and force myself to do it, that every suddenly turns right!!!!
So try to force yourself to look down the runway, not near you. You probably do this during the day anyway, just don't realise it
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Henrik,
I agree with all of the above especially with not staring down the beem of the landing light and concentrating on the runway stop markers. The following works for me although I must note that I am not an authority on the matter.
1 Normal approach using PAPI or not as you require.
2 Once over the landing area or approaching it, continue to monitor the end of the runway while using your peripheral vision monitor the runway edge lights.
3 As the runway edge lights appear level with you elbow start the hold off and cut/reduce power as required. As the edge lights approach your shoulder, flare the nose level to the runway stop end lights.
I find the above works very well and always gets the mains down first without to much of a thud.
I am just finishing my night rating but using this method allowed my to convert to landing at night almost instantly.
Hope that helps.
I agree with all of the above especially with not staring down the beem of the landing light and concentrating on the runway stop markers. The following works for me although I must note that I am not an authority on the matter.
1 Normal approach using PAPI or not as you require.
2 Once over the landing area or approaching it, continue to monitor the end of the runway while using your peripheral vision monitor the runway edge lights.
3 As the runway edge lights appear level with you elbow start the hold off and cut/reduce power as required. As the edge lights approach your shoulder, flare the nose level to the runway stop end lights.
I find the above works very well and always gets the mains down first without to much of a thud.
I am just finishing my night rating but using this method allowed my to convert to landing at night almost instantly.
Hope that helps.
Title? What title?
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I was taught that the key things for flying at night were
1) after take off, basically fly on instruments for the first 3-400 feet to avoid illusions. (I can't remember what it is called - help please ) , but just once I forgot and did get very confused for a couple of seconds).
2) On landing, basically the same as a day landing except keep a bit of power on to make the let down more smoothly (1000rpm on a PA28) and look down the runway to judge the flare - but - be aware of the runway lights in peripheral vision. When you get the sensation of them being around shoulder high, flare gently until you get the sensation of them coming up to your ears. As a general rule that should equal success.
Of course, these are my experiences and really you should discuss them with your instructor before trying them out.
Flying at night can be so wonderful that a slightly teary landing has occasionally happened to me.
1) after take off, basically fly on instruments for the first 3-400 feet to avoid illusions. (I can't remember what it is called - help please ) , but just once I forgot and did get very confused for a couple of seconds).
2) On landing, basically the same as a day landing except keep a bit of power on to make the let down more smoothly (1000rpm on a PA28) and look down the runway to judge the flare - but - be aware of the runway lights in peripheral vision. When you get the sensation of them being around shoulder high, flare gently until you get the sensation of them coming up to your ears. As a general rule that should equal success.
Of course, these are my experiences and really you should discuss them with your instructor before trying them out.
Flying at night can be so wonderful that a slightly teary landing has occasionally happened to me.
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FFF,
Silvereagle is right, it is something i was taught to teach when i began instructing at night.
Show the student where the edge lights are to the side when on the runway. That way they know where they should be approx in the pheriphal vision, when landing, and looking at 'yon end.
It will give you the only bit of pheriphal vision you can get. More important if you dont have centreline lights, when you feel like you are in a black hole, and hence flare too high.
Silvereagle is right, it is something i was taught to teach when i began instructing at night.
Show the student where the edge lights are to the side when on the runway. That way they know where they should be approx in the pheriphal vision, when landing, and looking at 'yon end.
It will give you the only bit of pheriphal vision you can get. More important if you dont have centreline lights, when you feel like you are in a black hole, and hence flare too high.
