Preventing groundloops in taildraggers
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
Better short field performance, Kingy, I agree. And better soft-field performance, too, in most cases. More speed only applies for non-retractable types - once you fold the wheels away, it doesn't really matter where they are.
But I think you are right about the big benefits being for the pilot. I remember reading somewhere (may even have been here) a discussion about cross-wind landings, in which someone suggested that tail-wheel aircraft are better in cross-winds. After a bit of discussion, the conclusion was that this is not correct, and that tricycle aircraft can handle more cross-winds than tail-draggers - but that a tail-dragger pilot in a tricycle could handle more cross-wind than a tricycle-only pilot. All a generalisation, of course.
Incidentally, any fear I had of ground-looping was eliminated when a (very experienced) instructor demonstrated that a Super Cub can be landed quite safely pointing sideways. In still wind conditions, he flew the whole of the final approach in a crab, landed in the crab, and rolled out with just one wheel on the runway. In still wind. Then he got me to repeat it. You have to be very fast on the rudders, and I'm not suggesting that anyone try this without an extremely experienced tail-dragger instructor on board - but it proves that these aircraft will only bite you if you don't know how to handle them.
Have fun!
FFF
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But I think you are right about the big benefits being for the pilot. I remember reading somewhere (may even have been here) a discussion about cross-wind landings, in which someone suggested that tail-wheel aircraft are better in cross-winds. After a bit of discussion, the conclusion was that this is not correct, and that tricycle aircraft can handle more cross-winds than tail-draggers - but that a tail-dragger pilot in a tricycle could handle more cross-wind than a tricycle-only pilot. All a generalisation, of course.
Incidentally, any fear I had of ground-looping was eliminated when a (very experienced) instructor demonstrated that a Super Cub can be landed quite safely pointing sideways. In still wind conditions, he flew the whole of the final approach in a crab, landed in the crab, and rolled out with just one wheel on the runway. In still wind. Then he got me to repeat it. You have to be very fast on the rudders, and I'm not suggesting that anyone try this without an extremely experienced tail-dragger instructor on board - but it proves that these aircraft will only bite you if you don't know how to handle them.
Have fun!
FFF
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
I'd recommend both Plourde's Compleat Taialdragger and Langesweiche's Stick And Rudder.
The wee booklet that I sent Aerbabe was acquired FOC from Cubair at Redhill.
Nosewheels are fine but I can't convince myself tha all the extra weight and drag are worth it for my type of flying, save of course when I'm in the back of an airliner!
Stik
The wee booklet that I sent Aerbabe was acquired FOC from Cubair at Redhill.
Nosewheels are fine but I can't convince myself tha all the extra weight and drag are worth it for my type of flying, save of course when I'm in the back of an airliner!
Stik
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
Langewiseche is excellent on all aspects of flying, although it's fair to point out he was a promoter of the tricycle gear for everyday flying. He took the view that conventional (that is, tailwheel) undercarriage was good as takeoff gear but not so good as landing gear. It's no accident, though, that modern high performance aerobatic types are tailwheelers (retractable gear would add a lot of weight) and, as pointed out above, being able to fly tailwheel opens up access to a variety of interesting aircraft, old and new.
PS: The US edition of David Robson's book is called "Conventional Gear" and it's cheaper on Amazon.
PS: The US edition of David Robson's book is called "Conventional Gear" and it's cheaper on Amazon.
Last edited by FNG; 24th February 2003 at 12:20.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Bristol and Forest of Dean
FFF,
I accept your point about retractable gear ... didn't think about that!
As for X winds, I think its all about a positive mental attitude and commitment. When flying with pilots not used to tailwheel strip flying I'm always surprised how they generally 'freeze' in the last stages of an approach - exactly at the time when liberal movement on the controls is often needed!
I've done unto 20tks X wind in the L4, the technique is to fly finals in a full slip right into the flare, then turn it into a tail down wheeler at the last moment making sure the upwind wheel is planted first. This is more than double the supposed limit, but the aircraft has powerful controls and it's achievable - you've just got to commit... I’m only an average pilot, but one who regularly flies old taildraggers into short strips in crosswinds.
The key to taildragging (for Me) is:
Be hard on yourself - drift on landing is not acceptable.
Practice, practice, practice (I do at least 1hr a week of circuits)
A 'can do' attitude - commit to an approach and use all your controls to make the aircraft do what YOU want it to do.
Elevator for airspeed, throttle for rate of descent - its got to be instinctive..
If the prop's turning - you’re flying. It’s not over till the planes tied down.
Kingy
I accept your point about retractable gear ... didn't think about that!
As for X winds, I think its all about a positive mental attitude and commitment. When flying with pilots not used to tailwheel strip flying I'm always surprised how they generally 'freeze' in the last stages of an approach - exactly at the time when liberal movement on the controls is often needed!
I've done unto 20tks X wind in the L4, the technique is to fly finals in a full slip right into the flare, then turn it into a tail down wheeler at the last moment making sure the upwind wheel is planted first. This is more than double the supposed limit, but the aircraft has powerful controls and it's achievable - you've just got to commit... I’m only an average pilot, but one who regularly flies old taildraggers into short strips in crosswinds.
The key to taildragging (for Me) is:
Be hard on yourself - drift on landing is not acceptable.
Practice, practice, practice (I do at least 1hr a week of circuits)
A 'can do' attitude - commit to an approach and use all your controls to make the aircraft do what YOU want it to do.
Elevator for airspeed, throttle for rate of descent - its got to be instinctive..
If the prop's turning - you’re flying. It’s not over till the planes tied down.
Kingy
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Cambridge, UK
If you want a good analysis of the forces involved, "The Compleat Taildragger Pilot" by H.S.Plourde is a good read. Goes well on the bookshelf next to "Stick and Rudder" 
Ian (groundlooped a Cessna 120
but thankfully not the Auster )
Ian (groundlooped a Cessna 120
but thankfully not the Auster )
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 492
Likes: 1
From: Manchester, UK
...and in terms of owning a taildragger (and hopefully this appies to those organisations renting 'em out) it's probably obvious, but maybe needs emphasising, that maintenance and correct setup of the tailwheel assembly is critical in terms of keeping the aeroplane's ground handling characteristics predictable.
On the Jodel I part owned for many years, the difference when we replaced a tired tailspring was marked. The change in angle when the tail was sitting on the ground greatly improved its responsiveness.
On the Jodel I part owned for many years, the difference when we replaced a tired tailspring was marked. The change in angle when the tail was sitting on the ground greatly improved its responsiveness.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Poetpilot's post prompted me to add this...
On both my taildraggers, the tailwheel and tailspring geometry is such that as the tailspring becomes "tired" and adopts a more relaxed shape, the rudder sits slightly nearer the ground and the chains that connect the rudder horns to the tailwheel steering horns become slacker.
My PFA inspector (also a licensed engineer) insists that I frequently re-tension these chains by removing a link.
On the odd occasion when I have flown similar types with slack tailwheel steering chains, the ground handling - especially when slow maneouvering close to other aircraft or obstacles is required leaves a lot to be desired! Obviously as speed builds up it is not such an issue as the rudder becomes energised but the amount of deflection required is greater than the correctly tensioned set up. You also experience a lot of free play which proves that you are not getting full tailwheel deflection.
On the Maule type tailwheel which has a "straight ahead" detente, slack springs allow "straight ahead" to disengage too easily.
I also regularly drop the tailspring and check that the spring and retaining bolts and saddles are in good nick as several years ago I made a very exciting excursion off a runway when the bottom leaf decided to fracture after a super smooth landing. The rudder and spring shook hands and this locked the rudder up. I exited stage left rapidly and nearly managed to stand somebody else's pride and joy on its nose as I stood on the brakes!!
Tail springs take a lot of punishment and do fail. It pays to make sure that they are well looked after.
Stik
On both my taildraggers, the tailwheel and tailspring geometry is such that as the tailspring becomes "tired" and adopts a more relaxed shape, the rudder sits slightly nearer the ground and the chains that connect the rudder horns to the tailwheel steering horns become slacker.
My PFA inspector (also a licensed engineer) insists that I frequently re-tension these chains by removing a link.
On the odd occasion when I have flown similar types with slack tailwheel steering chains, the ground handling - especially when slow maneouvering close to other aircraft or obstacles is required leaves a lot to be desired! Obviously as speed builds up it is not such an issue as the rudder becomes energised but the amount of deflection required is greater than the correctly tensioned set up. You also experience a lot of free play which proves that you are not getting full tailwheel deflection.
On the Maule type tailwheel which has a "straight ahead" detente, slack springs allow "straight ahead" to disengage too easily.
I also regularly drop the tailspring and check that the spring and retaining bolts and saddles are in good nick as several years ago I made a very exciting excursion off a runway when the bottom leaf decided to fracture after a super smooth landing. The rudder and spring shook hands and this locked the rudder up. I exited stage left rapidly and nearly managed to stand somebody else's pride and joy on its nose as I stood on the brakes!!
Tail springs take a lot of punishment and do fail. It pays to make sure that they are well looked after.
Stik
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Bristol and Forest of Dean
Bungees too!
I discovered what a huge effect worn bungees can have on ground handling last year.
I was having real problems controlling the swing on take off on my Isaac's Fury. We operate out of a field with a marked camber so she often wants to run off left anyway, but I needed a combination of full right boot, half throttle till tail up and sometimes brake too - things were getting a little hairy!
To cut a long story short, a bungee snapped on landing (a non emergency as there are loads of turns..) One phone call to Light Aero later the new bungees arrived and once fitted totally transformed the ground handling - much, much reduced swing...
Turns out the squidgy old bungees were allowing the gear geometry to change on application of power making it veer off in an alarming manor...
A lesson learned
Kingy
I was having real problems controlling the swing on take off on my Isaac's Fury. We operate out of a field with a marked camber so she often wants to run off left anyway, but I needed a combination of full right boot, half throttle till tail up and sometimes brake too - things were getting a little hairy!
To cut a long story short, a bungee snapped on landing (a non emergency as there are loads of turns..) One phone call to Light Aero later the new bungees arrived and once fitted totally transformed the ground handling - much, much reduced swing...
Turns out the squidgy old bungees were allowing the gear geometry to change on application of power making it veer off in an alarming manor...
A lesson learned
Kingy
