BCF Fire Extinguishers?
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BCF Fire Extinguishers?
Mine has lost 80g in weight and so the fire extinguisher man says the seal has gone. He also says that it's too toxic to refill. Is this true? He also says they'll be going soon, even for aircraft, because they're so toxic. Is this true?
Light Aero want £70+VAT (!) for a replacement. Anyone got any other leads? I suspect not, as Light Aero are generally very good, but you never know....
:-(
QDM
Light Aero want £70+VAT (!) for a replacement. Anyone got any other leads? I suspect not, as Light Aero are generally very good, but you never know....
:-(
QDM
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I certainly haven’t heard anything of this. That’s not to say it isn’t true...
BCF is a halon, which is a quick way of saying "Halogenated Hydrocarbon". It contains more than one Halogens such as Chlorine, Bromin and Flourine.. The most effective fire fighting Halon is Bromine but is very toxic.
BCF (Bromo Chloro Di Fluro Methane or Halon 1211) is poisonous in confined spaces so you should take care to ventilate after use in a cabin. It's use has been stopped almost anywhere due to its toxic nature, however due to a lack of a suitable replacement has remained in use for aircraft.
This is a guess, but if the guy said it will go even on light aircraft, then I suspect that it could be some European law. Again this is just a thought not a fact.
I hope it wont be removed, it offers the all round fire fighting performance that I would certainly appreciate if I experienced a cabin fire. I can vouch for it's effectiveness too - through various training sessions it has consistently proved its abilities to others and myself.
I don't know much about Light Aero, and £70 is steep. Having said that I am unsure what the going rate is. I suspect that if they do ban BCF, it will only be sales of new units rather than removing existing ones, so if I were you I'd get one. Shop around first though.
Bodie
BCF is a halon, which is a quick way of saying "Halogenated Hydrocarbon". It contains more than one Halogens such as Chlorine, Bromin and Flourine.. The most effective fire fighting Halon is Bromine but is very toxic.
BCF (Bromo Chloro Di Fluro Methane or Halon 1211) is poisonous in confined spaces so you should take care to ventilate after use in a cabin. It's use has been stopped almost anywhere due to its toxic nature, however due to a lack of a suitable replacement has remained in use for aircraft.
This is a guess, but if the guy said it will go even on light aircraft, then I suspect that it could be some European law. Again this is just a thought not a fact.
I hope it wont be removed, it offers the all round fire fighting performance that I would certainly appreciate if I experienced a cabin fire. I can vouch for it's effectiveness too - through various training sessions it has consistently proved its abilities to others and myself.
I don't know much about Light Aero, and £70 is steep. Having said that I am unsure what the going rate is. I suspect that if they do ban BCF, it will only be sales of new units rather than removing existing ones, so if I were you I'd get one. Shop around first though.
Bodie
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Looks like it is true:
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/halon2.htm
http://www.msauk.org/admin/news/View...sp?NewsId=1080
How do I easily find out what are approved for aircraft? According to this, AFFF are suitable, but are they approved?
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/halon.htm#summary
QDM
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/halon2.htm
http://www.msauk.org/admin/news/View...sp?NewsId=1080
How do I easily find out what are approved for aircraft? According to this, AFFF are suitable, but are they approved?
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/halon.htm#summary
QDM
Last edited by QDMQDMQDM; 6th Feb 2003 at 22:52.
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I'll ask if its approved and let you know (if someone doesnt find out before me).
AFFF would be better in some situations such as brake fires etc but the small size would limit its use.
I view BCF purely for cabin use. I wouldnt attack a brake, hydraulic or heaven forbin an engine fire with such a small unit, especially not without wearing a a heavy set of boots, leggins, a tunic, a flashood and a helmet!
This goes for any possible AFFF or perhaps Monex replacement too. The fact is that light aircraft will always carry small extinguisher units - they just cant afford to carry heavier ones.
I didnt have time to read eveything on this link but I did notice a bit titled 'USE OF HALON 1301 WILL BE PERMITTED:' which listed numerous areas for use in aircraft.
Those links don't seem to be aircraft specific. I would consider looking through the CAA archives www.caa.co.uk then do a search for Halon or Cabin safets etc. Failing that you could always contact the Rescue Fire Fighting Services at your airfield, they may be able to show you documents relating to aircraft use.
Bodie
AFFF would be better in some situations such as brake fires etc but the small size would limit its use.
I view BCF purely for cabin use. I wouldnt attack a brake, hydraulic or heaven forbin an engine fire with such a small unit, especially not without wearing a a heavy set of boots, leggins, a tunic, a flashood and a helmet!
This goes for any possible AFFF or perhaps Monex replacement too. The fact is that light aircraft will always carry small extinguisher units - they just cant afford to carry heavier ones.
http://www.firesafe.org.uk/html/halon.htm#summary
Those links don't seem to be aircraft specific. I would consider looking through the CAA archives www.caa.co.uk then do a search for Halon or Cabin safets etc. Failing that you could always contact the Rescue Fire Fighting Services at your airfield, they may be able to show you documents relating to aircraft use.
Bodie
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Bodie: I have always imagined the real use of my BCF fire extinguisher would be to quickly knock out any engine fire on start-up! Nothing you might carry onboard is going to save you in the event of a big crash/ruptured fuel tanks, but getting to a small fuel or electrical blaze quickly might well save the day.
Anybody else remember the sad photographs of that Gipsy Moth that was force-landed, and then set ablaze by fuel leaking from the manifold? The poor owner tried to roll it clear of the fire, which started on the ground, but ended up having to watch the whole thing reduced to charred frame members and naked spars (all the ribs were consumed).
It seems a shame to be denied the most effective extinguisher agent of all for legal reasons.
Anybody else remember the sad photographs of that Gipsy Moth that was force-landed, and then set ablaze by fuel leaking from the manifold? The poor owner tried to roll it clear of the fire, which started on the ground, but ended up having to watch the whole thing reduced to charred frame members and naked spars (all the ribs were consumed).
It seems a shame to be denied the most effective extinguisher agent of all for legal reasons.
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I've just popped down to Light Aero (they're only a mile away!) and picked up a 1.5Kg BCF extinguisher for £60 cos they'd had it in the store for a while. I'm going to stick with BCF until someone tells me otherwise.
Thanks all.
QDM
Thanks all.
QDM
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In motorsport, BCF/Halon was phased out years ago. The main issue is ozone layer damage, but I think there were issues with using it in confined spaces (ie cars, light aircraft cockpits).
From Chubb's website:
150 countries agreed in the Montreal Protocol to control the use of all ozone-depleting chemicals, and Halon was one of the first to be considered.
As a result of Montreal, the following steps were taken to eliminate Halon from common use:
31 DECEMBER 1993
The manufacture of Halon is banned. Recycled Halon can be used to recharge systems but all Halon being recycled needs to be tracked to prove its origins.
Halon retains some commercial value as recycled Halon is a commodity in demand.
1999 EUROPEAN REGULATION EC/5748
Formulated a timetable to phase out the use of Halon altogether and to govern the collection and destruction of both Halon 1301 (typically used in fixed systems) and 1211 (found in hand held extinguishers).
31 DECEMBER 2002
The last day that existing Halon systems may be recharged with recycled or reclaimed Halon.
After this date, if a Halon suppression system discharges it is effectively useless. The equipment it is designed to protect will be vulnerable until a new system can be purchased, installed and commissioned.
31 DECEMBER 2003
By this date all existing Halon systems must have been decommissioned and the Halon itself must have been disposed of by an approved contractor. Halon portable extinguishers must also be taken out of service by this date. Although Halon systems are still permitted in certain specialist applications (mainly military*) the export of Halon is severely restricted. Halon therefore now has a negative value, requiring certified disposal.
Full text
From Chubb's website:
150 countries agreed in the Montreal Protocol to control the use of all ozone-depleting chemicals, and Halon was one of the first to be considered.
As a result of Montreal, the following steps were taken to eliminate Halon from common use:
31 DECEMBER 1993
The manufacture of Halon is banned. Recycled Halon can be used to recharge systems but all Halon being recycled needs to be tracked to prove its origins.
Halon retains some commercial value as recycled Halon is a commodity in demand.
1999 EUROPEAN REGULATION EC/5748
Formulated a timetable to phase out the use of Halon altogether and to govern the collection and destruction of both Halon 1301 (typically used in fixed systems) and 1211 (found in hand held extinguishers).
31 DECEMBER 2002
The last day that existing Halon systems may be recharged with recycled or reclaimed Halon.
After this date, if a Halon suppression system discharges it is effectively useless. The equipment it is designed to protect will be vulnerable until a new system can be purchased, installed and commissioned.
31 DECEMBER 2003
By this date all existing Halon systems must have been decommissioned and the Halon itself must have been disposed of by an approved contractor. Halon portable extinguishers must also be taken out of service by this date. Although Halon systems are still permitted in certain specialist applications (mainly military*) the export of Halon is severely restricted. Halon therefore now has a negative value, requiring certified disposal.
Full text
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I have to admit to being extremely surprised by this thread, having just finished a load of exams for which I was taught that, where an aircraft has a single fire extinguisher, it must be BCF, and where an aircraft has more than one fire extinguisher, at least one must be BCF. 
However, I should add that my class were informed that the CAA have removed from the exams all questions about which type of fire extinguisher is to be used in a given situation, because there was so much debate about the answers.
Not a subject I particular want to discuss, though, having dropped at least two marks on the Operational Procedures exam because I couldn't remember how many extinguishers are required on anything with between 31 and 200 pax seats
FFF
-------------
However, I should add that my class were informed that the CAA have removed from the exams all questions about which type of fire extinguisher is to be used in a given situation, because there was so much debate about the answers.
Not a subject I particular want to discuss, though, having dropped at least two marks on the Operational Procedures exam because I couldn't remember how many extinguishers are required on anything with between 31 and 200 pax seats
FFF
-------------
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Panic over, folks, if panic there ever was. EU directive 2037/2000 Annexe 7 exempts critical users from the Halon ban. Critical uses include use in aircraft to extinguish fires in cabins, engine nacelles or cargo bays. There's no mention of private or commercial, so we should be OK.
QDM
QDM
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As I understand it, Halon is now banned as a fire extinguisher and existing installations have to be dismantled (don’t know what date). It’s often used in buildings (floor voids etc) and electrical equipment cos it kills fire quick and leaves no mess (unlike powder) but it can suffocate you in a confined space, though not a poison (as such). Aircraft are exempt – for the time being. If you can get it, use it – it is the best if you can only have one type and it has to be small.
If it's a big fire - run.
Gerry
If it's a big fire - run.
Gerry
If I faced a fire with one ext in hand I would generally want it to be BCF.
It impressed the hell out of me when I got to use one in practice. Amazing what one small bottle could do.
WWW
It impressed the hell out of me when I got to use one in practice. Amazing what one small bottle could do.
WWW
Helicopter Pilots Get It Up Quicker
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I heard 2 different reasons for banning it - the manufacturing process destroys the ozone layer or it's use destroys the ozone layer!
Heard it wouldn't be available after a date a few years ago except for certain apllications - namely aviation.
Having used it in anger I can say it is pretty damn effective!
In certain training exercises involving petrol and milk bottles it has been known to prevent burns to the receipent of said flaming bottle due to it's quick knock down.
Still have mine! 2 at home and 1 in the car.
Heard it wouldn't be available after a date a few years ago except for certain apllications - namely aviation.
Having used it in anger I can say it is pretty damn effective!
In certain training exercises involving petrol and milk bottles it has been known to prevent burns to the receipent of said flaming bottle due to it's quick knock down.
Still have mine! 2 at home and 1 in the car.
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Contact www.aircraftspruce.com.
They have many available and will export, so i'm told.
Very friendly folks.
They have many available and will export, so i'm told.
Very friendly folks.
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Halon is being phased out in many industries as it apparently destroys the ozone layer somehow, but is still permitted for aviation use.
Halon itself is not toxic, but in contact with fire it can cause toxic fumes. Normally a fire extinguisher removes one side of the "fire triangle" ie. a fire needs Fuel, Oxegen and heat to keep burning. Remove any of these and the fire dies.
Halon is different as it chemically reacts with a fires components to kill the fire which is why it is so effective and why it gives off fumes....You should be able to get your extinguisher refilled (depending on type) by an approved comapny...
Cheers
EA
Halon itself is not toxic, but in contact with fire it can cause toxic fumes. Normally a fire extinguisher removes one side of the "fire triangle" ie. a fire needs Fuel, Oxegen and heat to keep burning. Remove any of these and the fire dies.
Halon is different as it chemically reacts with a fires components to kill the fire which is why it is so effective and why it gives off fumes....You should be able to get your extinguisher refilled (depending on type) by an approved comapny...
Cheers
EA
