Who still uses a whiz wheel?

[feet dry]

ss

I cannot decide if your mention of anti US/GPS comment was derived from my post regarding the use of GPS (in particular or technology in general) when it comes to navigating. I am neither anti US or anti GPS. Indeed, I agree with your view that technology has made many of the more mundane parts of flying rather less so, however you cannot deny that a knowledge of the principles which the technology employs is important.

The ability to navigate, like any skill, will become rusty if not used regularly and we in the private flying community have no excuse to not practice the art. We are not constrained by the commercial considerations of our professional bretheren (though I suspect most commercial pilots would take pride in the fact they could use a circular slide rule if they had to).

As my UAS instructor taught me.....if you don't do it properly, don't do it at all.

[KCDW]

I do a lot of my flying in New Jersey, and it seems you can’t move for VORs in the NE. Look at a sectional and many of the VORs overlap almost to a point of being unreadable. I never see use of the whiz wheel in the clubhouse, and during my biennial flight review, I was never quizzed once on VFR navigation. I was asked to find my way home from the training area using a VOR though.

I guess if this forum had a larger US constituence, the whiz wheel v VOR/GPS %s would be easily reversed.

[slim_slag]

KCDW,

All that 3-5 mile visibility in haze round your neck of the woods causes a lot of problems for VFR pilots from the west where we are used to 120 miles visibility! Lots of complex airspace too, that wasn't around when people were using whiz-wheels because the transistor hadn't been invented. It's a different world nowadays, moving map GPS is a very useful tool, maybe becoming required around NJ. I don't think the FAA would be too impressed if your excuse for busting JFK class B was that you only used a whiz-wheel because that's the only real way to navigate.

feet dry,

I cannot decide for myself either Probably not.

What do you need a whiz-wheel for when you are flying by pilotage, you know you have enough fuel, and the weather is OK? Sounds like unnecessary technology to me Winds aloft never do what the forecasters tell them to. Draw a line on a map, point the plane at something on the horizon, and fly towards it. I guess I fly for fun nowadays and am anal when it comes to fuel, I'll even fill the tanks up if I have only flown an hour for a hamburger. Not only does that make me feel a lot happier, it gives some money to the airport operator who is providing a service.

The two planes I fly most don't even have a VOR receiver. If I'm bumbling along looking out of the window and if see something I like, I wander over to take a look. I always know where I am on the chart, and when I'm finished it doesn't require a whizwheel to head off in the general direction of my destination. I have plenty of fuel and the weather is good. What does a whiz wheel do for me?

[T_richard]

Ss Thank you for the excellent outline of real VFR navigation. Sound alot like the way I navigate on my sloop. I have the charts ou, but I steer by landmarks and check my Northstar GPS chartplotter with differential to detemine SOG so I know how long til I pick up a mooring hawser. The filing of flightplans stuff is another matter I will have to get used to. US Coast Guard usually leaves sailboaters alone, typically we are better mariners the some 23 y/o kid from the Bronx. Powerboaters CAN be (not ARE) another story.

As for the UK vs USA battle, I've been reading PPRUNE long enough to know that some people will beat the US withany stick they can find no matter how weak or old it is. We try to do everything right, often fail but once and awhile wecome up with something useful like GPS and we're happy to give it away. We fly the skies of the world too.

The French are still mad cuz they played both sides against the middle in WWII.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me

[Tinstaafl]

I use my Jep. CR5 whiz wheel all the time. Lots of things can be calculated faster using it than electronic gizmos.

It weighs very, very little & fits in my pocket without being noticeable.

Batteries for it are quite cheap too...

[slim_slag]

t_richard,

Be careful. If you go into your private checkride with the 'slim_slag method of flight planning' you will be thrown out on your ear and told to come back when you have fixed your smartass atttude. You have to demonstrate you know how to use the whiz wheel, and that is a good thing. You will find it easy.

The reason I get into these threads, basically asking "why" and putting another perspective is because of comments like this:

As my UAS instructor taught me.....if you don't do it properly, don't do it at all.

Now I have no problem with people who use the whiz wheel, but what business does some UAS instructor have telling people in totally different environments whats proper? Little old me can have a bad morning at the computer, and there is nothing better than a couple of hours flying in the mountains at 500ft. I can check the weather, file a flight plan, drive to the airport, and be taxying to the run up area, heading off to nowhere in particular, within thirty or so minutes. All I take is a chart and a headset. I don't need to take a whiz wheel, am I not doing things properly?

Maybe Mr UAS instructor (who I am sure is quite competent) wants to make a big deal of his monthly personal flight in the over controlled airspace of SE England, but I don't. Good luck to him, and good luck to all pilots in the western US who have the freedom of the vast open skies at their disposal, with or without a whiz wheel.

There are plenty of ways to skin a cat. Just make sure you fly safe.



And as for flight plans, as a student you have to learn to file flight plans over the phone talking with a human. They are an incredible resource, their weather briefings are the best. I don't file over the phone, I use the same computer when I get the weather and NOTAMS.

Guess what, sometimes I take off and don't even activate the flight plan. I bet a few UAS chaps will consider that irresponsible in the extreme, that is so naughty of me! Yet I still fly safely.

Cheers

[feet dry]

Slim

I think we shall just agree to differ...the original post asked who still used a whiz wheel and I gave my opinion. I am not in the business of offering opinions on the ability of other pilots, nor their attitude to what constitutes a proper and safe approach to flying.

I just do things differently to you.....on a personal note I watched two friends die in an accident directly connected with a lack of preparation before setting off for a jaunt, it is tragedies like this which perhaps shape my view.

Incidentally, a UAS is a University Air Squadron (or Royal Airforce Volunteer Reserve) whose instructors are all Royal Air Force pilots. My instructor, the Squadron BOSS had over 30 years flight experience, in more types than most people have hours. Flying instruments with him was an exercise in precision the like of which I have not encountered in the civilian world. If after 30 years he approached a flight the same way every time, I don't see why I should not aspire to do the same.

FD

[englishal]

Nah, I don't use the Whizz Wheel anymore if I can help it, far too complicated. I bought a second hand Electronic Flight computer and found that to be crap, so I wrote a nifty flight computer program for my Casio Cassiopeia which makes life very easy. If that fails I return to 'mental Arithmetic'...something we used to learn in school, in the days they were still allowed to mark your homework with RED PEN [shock horror]

Anyway, a bit of the mental stuff combined with GS (GPS / DME)along with the duats / Meto printouts of windspeed or GPS derrived windspeed works pretty well.

Cheers
EA

[juswonnafly]

I just use a line on the map, my thumb, max drift clock code, and a wristwatch................plan a X/C in 10 mins

[slim_slag]

feet,

I went to see UAS when I was at London Uni. They were interested, but it wasn't my cup of tea, my loss I am sure

Fly safe

Slag

[Flyin'Dutch']

Ahum

Dont even have one.

Does that count?

Didnt need to do the exams for which one was needed.

Tried one for fun but decided that I didnt need one.

FD

[Chocks Wahay]

Have got a whizwheel ... somewhere. Might remember how to use it on a good day.

a. Local - use a map, look out the window

b. Trips - plan using Navbox Proplan on the PC. Upload route to cheapo handheld non-aviation GPS. Draw lines on map, work out VOR crosscuts in advance. In the air use the GPS to show me where to go. Being a cheapie it has no moving map or airspace, just a line for the course and dots for large towns, so I am forced (happily) to use map / window / VOR methods of checking. Also means I don't get caught out when the GPS gives up (once) or batteries go flat (not yet).

Works for me.

[DOC.400]

Tend to use navaids. Had a current IMC for 6 years until FM immunity came in and the £7.5K upgrade incl. Garmin 430 beyond our group at the mo. But do a DR flight one or two times a year just to remind me!

Just to show the doubters how easy it is, I showed my nine year old how to plot the wind down method and planned a short flight White Waltham-Kemble via CPT, Didcot power station (his choice) and the white horse nr. Swindon.

I gave him the wind speed and direction, (065/15 at 2000' that day, if I remember) and also worked out the TAS for him, he did the rest! Nice high pressure day so had to SLOW the plane down to the 130 IAS we planned on (was cruising at 138) and we were 15 seconds early, bang on the nose on each waypoint -very satisfying for both of us!

BTW, the food and the service (30-40 min delay that we were not pre-warned about) at Kemble's new restaurant was cr*p. And I told 'em so -got my money back.......

DOC

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Doc

Cant complain too much at that then if you got your money back!

We went 3 weeks ago and while we had to wait a bit (it was a busy sunday lunchtime); the food was good and the ambiance excellent.

Mind you had excellent company as well.

I hope they do well with their resto as it is definitely a notch up from the average greasy spoon and a place where you can happily take your family (and even let them use the toilets!)

FD

[S-Works]

I have a CRP3 and CRP5 and frankly I know what the CRP stands for CR*P. Why anyone in this day and age thinks it is clever to use a slide rule is totally beyond me.

What a load of tosh about batteries, if my CX2 ran out of batteries (2 years old and still on the originals) I would put a new set in. Anyone who claims they can fly an aircraft safely and operate a whizz wheel is a liar.

Flight planning is done on the ground not in the air and I trust the output from my CX2 far more than I trust my ability to operate the CR*P wheel.

Doing the JAA IR has made me realise just how arcane the JAA vision of the flying world is. Why do I need to be able to do trigonometry and formulae to fly an airplane in IMC? Managed to do pretty well on the FAA system without damage to myself or others.

The whizz wheel should be thrown in the bin and the flying world should come into the 21st century.

[Penguina]

All of the above except the electronic flight computer. I like my whizzwheel: it's quicker than doing rough calculations for drift I find.

[Another St Ivian]

Well you're not throwing mine, bose-x!
While I fully understand the benefits and ease of using electronic flight planning tools I prefer to take out my whizz wheel and work out what I need to know. I find it far less hassle than pulling out a calculator or what not. Considering I am one of the supposed lazy yoof' of today, that's saying allot!
Admittedly I often just use Max Drift, proportional ETA correction and all that, but the few times I do compute something, I use the whizz wheel.

ASI

[IO540]

The circular slide rule does two things

- wind calculations (basically triangle trig)

For these, it is no more accurate than the rule of thumb of max drift being say 1/3 of the wind, because Form 214 data isn't accurate enough to start with.

- multiplication and division (with commonly used conversion ratios marked on the scale)

For these, it's a great way to make a mistake.

That's why it should be scrapped. It serves no real world purpose.

[White Bear]

I couldn't agree more Slim_slag.
Good idea to teach the basics in navigation to students, but we should also acknowledge that things have moved along since then.
I grew up in the U.K , and there is, among a 'certain' group, a mind set that says the more difficult, the more traditional the better. Only the gifted armature (and of course that includes them) is truly admired in the U.K. Professionalism is viewed in the same manner as 'tradesman' are, and anything that lowers 'standards' is looked down upon, no matter how much more sense it makes. I believe these same people think the best cars made in the world were made by W O Bentley in 1928,29,30 when that marques won consecutive victories at Le Mans. Wonderful victories they were, but if those 'certain' people had their way, car drivers, as well as pilots, would still find levers to adjust the fuel mixture, and the spark advance of their magnetos on the steering wheel, the hand brake would still be found outside attached to the running boards, and of course only a fool would need more than rod operated rear wheel brakes. Unfortunately this 'group' is still very influential in the UK, and it's pretty obvious which group gained control of what.

I'll bet much of what has been said about GPS was used to decry VOR/DME when that technology was new. Slide rules were very clever, in their day. No one in their right mind would suggest today that the E6B is superior to a modern flight computer as a navigation tool. It's akin to using a steam engine instead of a jet, fine if all you want to do is to keep the 'tradition' alive, but foolhardy to risk your and others lives upon in this day and age. Your much more likely to suffer an engine failure, given the 1930's technology we are forced to fly with, than have your GPS unit fail. (If the batteries fail, then you failed, not the unit. If you fly regularly, use the aircrafts system to power your GPS).

Why Oh Why do we do this to ourselves. One smart G.A. pilot said on this forum long ago. "Anyone who flies without the best technology available that he/she can afford to help them fly safe, is a fool"
Sorry, pet peeve.
White Bear.

[Polly Gnome]

I still use my whizz wheel on the ground because
- it's very fast (honestly)
- you can SEE what you are doing
- you can double check if you have made an error in input

In the air I double check with VORs, NDBs, etc.

I knew an Airbus training captain (also a fast jet pilot) who was really pleased with the 'mini whizz wheel' he had just bought.