PPL's & SLMG's!

[Viggie Driver]

To fly a SLMG on a PPL....do you have to do an SLMG rating or just get checked out? i already have 32 hours on SLMG from flying with the Air Cadets as a U/T instructor on the Grob 109b
Or the other route...is it worth doing an NPPL for SLMG?!

[Stan Evil]

If you're talking about a JAA PPL or full UK PPL then you can fly a TMG (an SLMG which does not have a retractable engine/prop) only once you have a TMG Class Rating. To get this you need to pass a skill test (stalls, steep turns, PFL, circuits) with a TMG Class Rating Examiner. In the UK only once you have a TMG class rating you can fly all SLMGs.

As far as an NPPL is concerned, if you have a full PPL for SEP aircraft you can automatically get issued with the equivalent NPPL. Then you just need differences training to be allowed to fly SLMG.

[Capt L]

Just out of interest, what's an SLMG?

[MikeSamuel]

Self Launching Motor Glider, I think...

[Genghis the Engineer]

Yes.

Incidentally those with logged hours on the Vigilant T1, you can legitimately claim the hours as either an SLMG (which it is) or as SEP, because the RAF certified it at 908kg which is above the 850kg limit for a civil motor glider. (Trust me, I wrote the certification reports).

If they're treating people the same as on the microlight, I imagine that an SEP license holder will need to pass the SLMG GFT, then cough up £131 for an NPPL with an SLMG rating.

G

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Supplementary question..... if like me, you passed an SLMG GFT on the basis of a CAA PPL, then didn't fly enough SLMG hours to keep it valid, how do you revalidate the rating?

[Wot No Engines]

AF,

From the NPPL web site http://www.nppl.uk.com

Cross-crediting licences and ratings to NPPL(SLMG)
3.1 Current pilots
3.1.1 NPPL(SEP) or JAR-FCL PPL(A) to NPPL(SLMG)
The holder of a NPPL(SEP) or JAR-FCL PPL(A) with a SEP class rating who wishes to obtain a NPPL(SLMG) will be required to:
(a) Produce log book evidence of having satisfactorily completed the differences training in a SLMG with a flight instructor;
(b) Hold a valid NPPL medical certificate.

Looks like you will need to do a couple of hours "differences training" and pay your £131 for the NPPL.

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Wot No Engines,

Thanks for that. It looks like I'm stuck in a little backwater of confused regulation, and the only way out is going to be to spend!

I can't convert my CAA PPL to a NPPL, as I need it to fly abroad. If I've understood correctly (and I probably haven't...), the procedure will be as follows:

• Trade in my CAA PPL(A) for a JAR PPL(SEP), and pay a fee.
• Use the JAR PPL(SEP) to get an NPPL(SLMG), and pay another fee.
• Somehow upgrade the NPPL(SLMG) to a JAR PPL(TMG) if I want to fly a motor glider outside the UK and, of course, pay another fee.

I used to own a motor glider that I could fly anywhere. I've now got to pay three lots of fees (four, if I include the class 2 medical) just to do what I did quite legally before.

Looks like I'm not going to flying motor gliders for a bit!

[NavEx]

The Vigilant used to be classed as a SEP but alas not anymore. It is now rated as a TMG, hours can no longer be used to count towards licences etc. I asked the FCL people at Gatwick, there is no longer a all up weight issue with TMGs (there still is for SLMGs) so the Vigi is a TMG. All very confusing, if anyone knows any different and has succesful used Vigi hours as SEP since JAA please let me know!

[Genghis the Engineer]

How very interesting, not to mention unnecessarily beaurocratic. I just looked at the small print in the back of my license, and you appear to be correct. Presumably the easiest route now would be to finish a JAR-FCL PPL(TMG) then convert to SEP.

What a mess.

G

[Stan Evil]

Aerobatic Flyer - I've either missed something or you're making this much too complicated:

You have a UK PPL with a SEP class rating

You want to be able to fly TMG and SLMG

All you need to do is pass a skill test with a class rating examiner in a TMG (like the Grob). The CAA will give you a list of suitably qualified examiners if you ask.

I have a UK licence and that's how I got a TMG rating put in it.

[Future Pundit]

Just another thought that I have had problems with. In order to add TMG to a JAR PPL you need to do training in a TMG with a JAR FI (TMG) and fly from a licensed aerodrome. A flight test by a JAR examiner (TMG) is then required.

The problem is, there are not any JAR TMG instructors and I have only found 1 JAR TMG examiner.

[Stan Evil]

There aren't that many but . . .

Any FI who has a current TMG rating in his licence is de facto a TMG instructor.

There are at least 4 TMG FIEs so there must be a few instructors about and all of the FIEs can do class rating tests.

[Sensible]

To get an SLMG certificate of test on a CAA licence, all that is needed is to do a check ride with an examiner. I did mine near Oxford where there is a selection of motor gliders available and I was amazed at only having to do a 1 hr check ride to get the cherished stamp in my log book.

if you want to know the phone number, I will look it up on receipt of an e-mail request.

Cheers!