Complex Conversion
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: Surrey, UK.
EA,
"...Why? Just don't overboost it, easy. TC should make high altitude take off easier?..."
Just as big a problem, but greater understanding required, is shock-cooling TC engines - this is what the "difference training" should cover-off as well.
"...Why? Just don't overboost it, easy. TC should make high altitude take off easier?..."
Just as big a problem, but greater understanding required, is shock-cooling TC engines - this is what the "difference training" should cover-off as well.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 427
Likes: 0
From: Bali H'ai
Turbo Charging
In our basic trainer aircraft, at takeoff you have mixture rich and firewall the throttle, in a complex aircraft, its mixture rich prop fine and firewall the throttle.
Don't try that in a turbo charged aircraft, in my C182TR the throttle was approximately 50 per cent advanced (distance wise) at take off, that's 32" manifold pressure with a measure of turbo assistance on line. Airfield elevation 5000" plus.
In a non turbo aircraft at the same elevation you get about 25" boost.
The throttle had advanced to the firewall by 20,000'. The aircraft was factory fitted with a 4 place oxygen system, that's something else!
Turbo cooling was another issue, it rotates about 20,000rpm at a very high temperature, obviously as it is in the exhaust flow, and does need a few minutes to cool down. It is necessary to keep the engine running as the oil lubrication for the turbo unit is engine driven, and an oil flow has to be maintained through the turbo during the slowing down cycle. 5 minutes was usually allowed after touchdown.
As I said it is the most challenging part of the complex conversion and should not be underestimated. If you do not look after that turbo, things can and do go awfully quiet.
In our basic trainer aircraft, at takeoff you have mixture rich and firewall the throttle, in a complex aircraft, its mixture rich prop fine and firewall the throttle.
Don't try that in a turbo charged aircraft, in my C182TR the throttle was approximately 50 per cent advanced (distance wise) at take off, that's 32" manifold pressure with a measure of turbo assistance on line. Airfield elevation 5000" plus.
In a non turbo aircraft at the same elevation you get about 25" boost.
The throttle had advanced to the firewall by 20,000'. The aircraft was factory fitted with a 4 place oxygen system, that's something else!
Turbo cooling was another issue, it rotates about 20,000rpm at a very high temperature, obviously as it is in the exhaust flow, and does need a few minutes to cool down. It is necessary to keep the engine running as the oil lubrication for the turbo unit is engine driven, and an oil flow has to be maintained through the turbo during the slowing down cycle. 5 minutes was usually allowed after touchdown.
As I said it is the most challenging part of the complex conversion and should not be underestimated. If you do not look after that turbo, things can and do go awfully quiet.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
From: Yorkshire
15 hours def sounds a rip off, the place I use in the US wants the following to hire.
Private Pilot Certificate
Third Class Medical
Complex Endorsement FAR 61.31 (e)
- 75 hours total time; 15 hours complex with 1 hour checkout
- or 75 hours total time with 5 hours dual in our Arrow
So the answer would be between 1-5 hours!
Sounds like the guy is after some hours to me.
Agree with you Rustle, had the point about shock cooling and power management beaten into me by my instructor when he took me out in the 200T. You have to think about your descent a lot further out than you would in a non-TC and start winding back the throttles. Like you say, certainly sharpedns you up and gets you thinking!
Julian.
Private Pilot Certificate
Third Class Medical
Complex Endorsement FAR 61.31 (e)
- 75 hours total time; 15 hours complex with 1 hour checkout
- or 75 hours total time with 5 hours dual in our Arrow
So the answer would be between 1-5 hours!
Sounds like the guy is after some hours to me.
Agree with you Rustle, had the point about shock cooling and power management beaten into me by my instructor when he took me out in the 200T. You have to think about your descent a lot further out than you would in a non-TC and start winding back the throttles. Like you say, certainly sharpedns you up and gets you thinking!
Julian.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
From: Vancouver Island
May I be so bold as to suggest that turbocharger operation such as take off, climb, power management and stage cooling as well as cool down after landing have no effect on flying time whatsoever.
The handling of engines is a ground school item and has no bearing on flight time.
Cat Driver:
The handling of engines is a ground school item and has no bearing on flight time.
Cat Driver:
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Canada
The way that my instructor is transitioning me to a "complex" aircraft (C172 RG Cutlass) is with about an hour and a half of ground briefing, and two flights of about an hour each. In order to satisfy the insurance people though, I need just a bit more dual before I can take it out solo. So I'm going to do my mountain checkout in this plane. That way I can get to see some cool scenery while getting used to the new aircraft.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Assumining average pilot proficiency, 10-15 hours is nonsense. 
The flying school and their insurer are free to set whatever minimum dual time they want before allowing you to rent it solo, but if that figure is 10-15 hours, my advice would be to shop around. You will almost certainly find a better deal elsewhere, as most insurers take a benign view of the trusty old Arrow.
The flying school and their insurer are free to set whatever minimum dual time they want before allowing you to rent it solo, but if that figure is 10-15 hours, my advice would be to shop around. You will almost certainly find a better deal elsewhere, as most insurers take a benign view of the trusty old Arrow.
