Cessna120/140 query
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2002
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From: Chilterns/Blighty
Cessna120/140 query
Could some of you knowledgeable chaps out there explain to me the status of the Cessna 120 in the UK regarding Permit to Fly or C of A? Which is the case and does the same criteria apply to the C140?
Any thoughts out there about operating this type would be appreciated.
Regds
FW
Any thoughts out there about operating this type would be appreciated.
Regds
FW
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,966
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From: Norfolk
I am confident that neither aircraft is operable on a Permit to Fly and both must be CAA regulated.
The main difference between the 2 aircraft IIRC is that the 120 has fabric wings and the 140's are aluminium covered.
Stik
The main difference between the 2 aircraft IIRC is that the 120 has fabric wings and the 140's are aluminium covered.
Stik
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,214
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From: S Warwickshire
The main difference between the 120 and 140 are the flaps on the 140 (which don't do a lot anyway). Both aircraft originally had fabric covered wings, although the 140a has metal wings and a single strut (like a 150). Several of the fabric wings have been "metallized".
The 120s (but not the 140s) were originally allowed onto the PFA permit scheme. I believe now most factory builts including Jodels, Condors etc are forced onto private cat. If you want one on a permit, I think you will need to find one already on it.
The 120 will outperform a 150 in almost every respect on less power (and fuel) and is a very practical little aeroplane.
Originally they could be bought without brakes, electrics etc, but most of them have been updated.
A lot of them have the wheel extensions which put more weight on the tailwheel. I've never found any need for them personally. They are very easy to land for a tailwheel, though it takes a delicate touch to avoid a small bounce.
I've had a share in one for over 13 years now and have little to criticise. Let me know if I can help with any specific queries.
The 120s (but not the 140s) were originally allowed onto the PFA permit scheme. I believe now most factory builts including Jodels, Condors etc are forced onto private cat. If you want one on a permit, I think you will need to find one already on it.
The 120 will outperform a 150 in almost every respect on less power (and fuel) and is a very practical little aeroplane.
Originally they could be bought without brakes, electrics etc, but most of them have been updated.
A lot of them have the wheel extensions which put more weight on the tailwheel. I've never found any need for them personally. They are very easy to land for a tailwheel, though it takes a delicate touch to avoid a small bounce.
I've had a share in one for over 13 years now and have little to criticise. Let me know if I can help with any specific queries.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 215
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From: Hampshire, UK
Mark 1 is spot on.
On the CAA search site there are 16 x C140's listed, all on Cof A. Of the 22 x C120s which have had paperwork issued, all but 4 are on PFA Permits. History now, but when they are basically the same airframe....
Slip
On the CAA search site there are 16 x C140's listed, all on Cof A. Of the 22 x C120s which have had paperwork issued, all but 4 are on PFA Permits. History now, but when they are basically the same airframe....
Slip
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,235
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From: Niort
It is all about theway the CAAs rules and their implementation have changed. Up until about 7 or so years ago there was a list of antique aircraft that could be imported and placed onto permits.
This lead to a lrge number of aircraft being imported and permits considerably outnumbering CoAs. The CAAs rules were then changed. Any imported aircraft not homebuilt, and with any sort of existing certificate of airworthiness could only be imported onto a CoA. The import trade collapsed overnight.
Paying the CAA for them to devise a build standard for a 50 year old aircraft is just about impossible. This is the situation that exists today. If it is on a permit you can remain with it, if its on a CoA you're stuck with it.
I suspect the PFA were going through one of their periodic internal squabbles when all this went through, because from memory it all came as a bit of a surprise.
This lead to a lrge number of aircraft being imported and permits considerably outnumbering CoAs. The CAAs rules were then changed. Any imported aircraft not homebuilt, and with any sort of existing certificate of airworthiness could only be imported onto a CoA. The import trade collapsed overnight.
Paying the CAA for them to devise a build standard for a 50 year old aircraft is just about impossible. This is the situation that exists today. If it is on a permit you can remain with it, if its on a CoA you're stuck with it.
I suspect the PFA were going through one of their periodic internal squabbles when all this went through, because from memory it all came as a bit of a surprise.
