Grumman AA5B as group operated aircraft
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Garstang, Preston, UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Grumman AA5B as group operated aircraft
Opinions sought on the practicality/handling and general suitability of this aircraft for group operation.
Thanks in anticipation
Thanks in anticipation
Last edited by baldwinm; 8th Nov 2002 at 11:55.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hampshire, UK
Age: 72
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a group of 6 at Southampton operating AA5B G-ZERO, very successfully.
http://www.flyibm.com/G-ZERO.html
Slip
http://www.flyibm.com/G-ZERO.html
Slip
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am in a 6 member AA5B group based at Biggin Hill - feel free to e-mail me about it - I'm not exactly sure about exactly what you want to know. I can give you the gen of what to look and what not to look for. There aren't many real gotchas with a tiger - it's a low-wing 180hp 4 place single equivalent to an Archer as has similar characteristics.
Cheers!
foggy.
Cheers!
foggy.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Tiger is a fine plane.
Foghorn as a Grumman flyer how can you say it has similar characteristics to an Archer, you’ll never get into the Grumpy Gang http://home.pi.be/~andre17 by saying that. What a handle that would be “Grumpy Foghorn”. It’s a bit like saying the Morris Minor has similar characteristics to an MG Midget because they both have four wheels and an engine. Don’t flame me here, I’m having a laugh, it’s just that I’m biased, been flying the AA5’s series of aircraft for nearly twenty years now. The Tiger makes a fine touring plane, but its not an ideal Sunday puddle jumper, 30minute local flights etc. If that’s what you want a AA5 Traveler or 5A Cheetah is best for that.
My advice is to take up Foghorn’s offer of info on his group operations. If you want a second opinion then feel free to get in touch with me as I have been in a Group operating an AA5 and now an AA5B Tiger for a good many years.
If you can make it down to Leicester on Sat. Dec 7th the UK members of the American Yankee Association (AYA) www.aya.org, the Grumman Owners Club. , are having a pre Xmas Bacon Butty fly in when we would only be too pleased to talk Grumman’s with you. P.S. all Grumman flyers welcome.
Foghorn as a Grumman flyer how can you say it has similar characteristics to an Archer, you’ll never get into the Grumpy Gang http://home.pi.be/~andre17 by saying that. What a handle that would be “Grumpy Foghorn”. It’s a bit like saying the Morris Minor has similar characteristics to an MG Midget because they both have four wheels and an engine. Don’t flame me here, I’m having a laugh, it’s just that I’m biased, been flying the AA5’s series of aircraft for nearly twenty years now. The Tiger makes a fine touring plane, but its not an ideal Sunday puddle jumper, 30minute local flights etc. If that’s what you want a AA5 Traveler or 5A Cheetah is best for that.
My advice is to take up Foghorn’s offer of info on his group operations. If you want a second opinion then feel free to get in touch with me as I have been in a Group operating an AA5 and now an AA5B Tiger for a good many years.
If you can make it down to Leicester on Sat. Dec 7th the UK members of the American Yankee Association (AYA) www.aya.org, the Grumman Owners Club. , are having a pre Xmas Bacon Butty fly in when we would only be too pleased to talk Grumman’s with you. P.S. all Grumman flyers welcome.
Guest
Posts: n/a
T'was a group operated Tiger that slid off the end of Bartons RWY 09 recentlly
I believe it was a newish member used to the longer home airfield
Like most groups its not the aircraft you should look carefully at but your prospective fellow members. And quite properly they should look similarly at you.
Sir George
The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door
I believe it was a newish member used to the longer home airfield
Like most groups its not the aircraft you should look carefully at but your prospective fellow members. And quite properly they should look similarly at you.
Sir George
The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door
Fine a/c wonderfull in the air, however, I would not base one on grass. Yes I know it has been done, but if you want to fly on a wet, windy weekend, it's a pain due to lack of nose wheel steering.
S
S
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Splat, your not my son are you, he was called that at school.
Yes I take your point about wet grass airfields in can be a problem but not insurmountable, The BASHers http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/ayaflyin.htm operate out of Popham quite happily, although I do believe they had to re-locate once last winter when things got really bad, but then again so did other nose wheel steering P’ and C’s, sorry can’t make myself print the real word.
Horses for courses as they say.
The BASH group plane is a AA5 which only has the original small tail plane which prevents getting the nose wheel off early on the takeoff role. The Tiger and Cheetah benefit from a almost 100% increase in tailplane area which helps greatly.
The Barton incident is a example of insufficient training on type which is most important on Grumman’s as well as wanting to get the plane on the ground at all cost’s. Tailwind landings will take up a lot of runway with an AA5, they love to fly, read float. Airspeed control is most important on these planes, that’s why they make such a good transitional trainer for more complex aircraft. You just can’t come down the approach with airspeed fluctuating 10knots. Touchdown at 75 or 70 knts in a tailwind is asking for trouble. See http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/nov02/gdoni.htm and http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/oct02/gbtii.htm
Yankee
Sorry all, especially the BASH group, but for the BASHer’s try, http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm
Yankee
Sorry all, especially the BASH group, but for the BASHer’s try, http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm
Yankee
Yes I take your point about wet grass airfields in can be a problem but not insurmountable, The BASHers http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/ayaflyin.htm operate out of Popham quite happily, although I do believe they had to re-locate once last winter when things got really bad, but then again so did other nose wheel steering P’ and C’s, sorry can’t make myself print the real word.
Horses for courses as they say.
The BASH group plane is a AA5 which only has the original small tail plane which prevents getting the nose wheel off early on the takeoff role. The Tiger and Cheetah benefit from a almost 100% increase in tailplane area which helps greatly.
The Barton incident is a example of insufficient training on type which is most important on Grumman’s as well as wanting to get the plane on the ground at all cost’s. Tailwind landings will take up a lot of runway with an AA5, they love to fly, read float. Airspeed control is most important on these planes, that’s why they make such a good transitional trainer for more complex aircraft. You just can’t come down the approach with airspeed fluctuating 10knots. Touchdown at 75 or 70 knts in a tailwind is asking for trouble. See http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/nov02/gdoni.htm and http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/bulletin/oct02/gbtii.htm
Yankee
Sorry all, especially the BASH group, but for the BASHer’s try, http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm
Yankee
Sorry all, especially the BASH group, but for the BASHer’s try, http://www.skertch.freeserve.co.uk/bashgroup.htm
Yankee
Guest
Posts: n/a
We operate an AA5B group out of Tatenhill. Take a look at;
http://www.unicrypt.com/.
It is much nicer to fly then the p's and c's, but will not perform as well as the Robin DR400 or the modern composite types. If you have to keep it outside, it will survive better than most.
It has just gone back into production in the USA.
Rod
http://www.unicrypt.com/.
It is much nicer to fly then the p's and c's, but will not perform as well as the Robin DR400 or the modern composite types. If you have to keep it outside, it will survive better than most.
It has just gone back into production in the USA.
Rod
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yankee,
Maybe I just should have phrased that differently - of course us AA5B flyers know that a Tiger is vastly superior to the opposition, I was just trying to put baldwinm's mind at rest that he is not buying into an esoteric type or aircraft that may significantly bite him...
Sir George I am a member of said group
cheers!
foggy.
Maybe I just should have phrased that differently - of course us AA5B flyers know that a Tiger is vastly superior to the opposition, I was just trying to put baldwinm's mind at rest that he is not buying into an esoteric type or aircraft that may significantly bite him...
Sir George I am a member of said group
cheers!
foggy.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I owned and operated a Cheetah in my flight school for several years.
The Cheetah is flat out the nicest flying of all the certificated light aircraft available on the market. ( I of course have not flown everything so maybe there is a better certified airplane out there.
)
As to the accidents, well I know of a guy who owned a Jaguar sports car and he lost control of it one day and wrecked it. I would not own a Jaguar sports car because you can lose control of them and wreck it.
Cat Driver:
The Cheetah is flat out the nicest flying of all the certificated light aircraft available on the market. ( I of course have not flown everything so maybe there is a better certified airplane out there.
)As to the accidents, well I know of a guy who owned a Jaguar sports car and he lost control of it one day and wrecked it. I would not own a Jaguar sports car because you can lose control of them and wreck it.
Cat Driver:
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Garstang, Preston, UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the advice, folks
Thanks for the all the advice folks.
I've since found out that the aircraft in question is a Traveller not a Tiger. However it will be operated from tarmac. From what you say it sounds the type of aircraft I would be interested in.
I've since found out that the aircraft in question is a Traveller not a Tiger. However it will be operated from tarmac. From what you say it sounds the type of aircraft I would be interested in.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Blackbushe
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The wing characteristics of the Warrior mean that you can have great fun in it.
Next time you're in it, put it into a straight stall & just continue to hold the stick back ( don't recover ). The warrior will recover itself quite quickly & you'll then go into another stall, & another.
Do this for 30 seconds or until green. Much better than a rollercoaster ride. And, you haven't lost much height. Ok, I admit, it doesn't beat an aerobatic aircraft, but then again, it was never meant to.
As for floating on landing. I went to Popham a short while ago with an instructor to practice short field work. If you approach at stall x 1.3 -5 (55kts) instead of stall x 1.3 +5 (65kts), it is easily possible to touch the numbers & pull off at the first exit. With no headwind.
Just slow down!
Next time you're in it, put it into a straight stall & just continue to hold the stick back ( don't recover ). The warrior will recover itself quite quickly & you'll then go into another stall, & another.
Do this for 30 seconds or until green. Much better than a rollercoaster ride. And, you haven't lost much height. Ok, I admit, it doesn't beat an aerobatic aircraft, but then again, it was never meant to.
As for floating on landing. I went to Popham a short while ago with an instructor to practice short field work. If you approach at stall x 1.3 -5 (55kts) instead of stall x 1.3 +5 (65kts), it is easily possible to touch the numbers & pull off at the first exit. With no headwind.
Just slow down!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Foghorn
Just got back to this thread.
Sorry to hear that. A fellow group member once returned our taildragger to the hangar not in the state he pushed it out in!
So I know the emotions. Hows it going - Is it repairable?
Gir George Cayley
The air is a naviable ocean that laps at everyones door
Sorry to hear that. A fellow group member once returned our taildragger to the hangar not in the state he pushed it out in!
So I know the emotions. Hows it going - Is it repairable?
Gir George Cayley
The air is a naviable ocean that laps at everyones door
I say there boy
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 1,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No worries George, it's back in a few weeks with a brand spanking new paint job. Should look better than new oh - and Mssrs. Lloyd of London have spent nearly £30,000 getting it back in the air.
Will enjoy it until next year's insurance bill arrives...
Will enjoy it until next year's insurance bill arrives...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Garstang, Preston, UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yankee
Thanks for the info you sent.
The owners club you belong to at www.aya.org is a useful resource too.
The owners club you belong to at www.aya.org is a useful resource too.
