Piper Arrow conversion
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: East Anglia
I've just done my conversion onto an Arrow 3 and had no probs having a few hours on Warriors and Cherokees. One thing I was taught was not to put the prop to fine until on final. The reason being it creates less noise so keeps the neighbours happier, and the only reason you go to fine is for the go around anyway.
Just a thought
Just a thought
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: The Death Star
Wicked!
Hiya all,
Well I finally got a weather slot today and was able to complete the Arrow Conversion. I knew as soon as I got in it I would love this particular beast, lovely purple felt, storm watch and a moving map amongst other things meant it felt much more like the extra money was justified!
I found that there were no hassles with pre flight actions right up until take off, as its pretty much the same as the warrior, which was good. Take off and both the sound and acceleration certainly showed it was an Arrow and not a Warrior!
Have to say it was a really enjoyable flight, and once I'd got used to the wobbly prop I was able to relax a little, I found the gear no great shakes and the only thing that gave me a bit of hassle was the increased rate of yaw induced by the extra horse.
Cheers for all the info given people, it made things that little bit easier.
Low Ratio,
I too was taught to only fully fine the prop on final, the way I was taught was instead of doing normal CRAP checks, do a Reds, Blues, Greens RAP check, at which point the prop gets fine, is this the normal way of doing thing? I'd be interested to know.
I'm off to smile some more!
Rusty.
Well I finally got a weather slot today and was able to complete the Arrow Conversion. I knew as soon as I got in it I would love this particular beast, lovely purple felt, storm watch and a moving map amongst other things meant it felt much more like the extra money was justified!
I found that there were no hassles with pre flight actions right up until take off, as its pretty much the same as the warrior, which was good. Take off and both the sound and acceleration certainly showed it was an Arrow and not a Warrior!
Have to say it was a really enjoyable flight, and once I'd got used to the wobbly prop I was able to relax a little, I found the gear no great shakes and the only thing that gave me a bit of hassle was the increased rate of yaw induced by the extra horse.
Cheers for all the info given people, it made things that little bit easier.
Low Ratio,
I too was taught to only fully fine the prop on final, the way I was taught was instead of doing normal CRAP checks, do a Reds, Blues, Greens RAP check, at which point the prop gets fine, is this the normal way of doing thing? I'd be interested to know.
I'm off to smile some more!
Rusty.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
From: Witnesham, Suffolk
Coming in a bit late here - glad you enjoyed it.
Folks have told you all the key bits, and really it's a doddle. Reds Blues Greens is the important one.
I find with ours that the auto gear extend means the wheels won't retract till airspeed gets to about 90 knots, and of course with the wheels down that takes a while. So I always use the "auto extend override" on takeoff - pull up the little red button and push in the pin to hold it up. Once you're up to cruising height and speed, and over land, release it again just in case.
I leave it locked "up" over water - years ago, we lost an Arrer cos the engine went BANG! over the Solent, the gear dropped automatically, and P1 (not me) was a bit too preoccupied to realise why he wasn't getting the glide he should. He splashed down about 50 yards offshore. Wheels up till later, he'd have made it to land.
Folks have told you all the key bits, and really it's a doddle. Reds Blues Greens is the important one.
I find with ours that the auto gear extend means the wheels won't retract till airspeed gets to about 90 knots, and of course with the wheels down that takes a while. So I always use the "auto extend override" on takeoff - pull up the little red button and push in the pin to hold it up. Once you're up to cruising height and speed, and over land, release it again just in case.
I leave it locked "up" over water - years ago, we lost an Arrer cos the engine went BANG! over the Solent, the gear dropped automatically, and P1 (not me) was a bit too preoccupied to realise why he wasn't getting the glide he should. He splashed down about 50 yards offshore. Wheels up till later, he'd have made it to land.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: The Death Star
Thanks Keef,
Sorry to hear about the splash down. On this particular aircraft the auto gear extend has been removed. The flying school bought the aircraft in this state and I beleive something has been installed to replace it but now can't remember what it is. Needless to say I learnt the emergency drop drills, we pulled the cicuit breaker, pressed the little red button down and hey presto, 3 clunks!
Something I'm also going to have to make a mental note to remember is the effect of panel lights on the gear indicator lights. I'm looking forward to flying it again soon, however will probably do some more circuits before I load some pax and venture off at 130kts!
Cheers,
Rusty.
Sorry to hear about the splash down. On this particular aircraft the auto gear extend has been removed. The flying school bought the aircraft in this state and I beleive something has been installed to replace it but now can't remember what it is. Needless to say I learnt the emergency drop drills, we pulled the cicuit breaker, pressed the little red button down and hey presto, 3 clunks!
Something I'm also going to have to make a mental note to remember is the effect of panel lights on the gear indicator lights. I'm looking forward to flying it again soon, however will probably do some more circuits before I load some pax and venture off at 130kts!
Cheers,
Rusty.
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
From: UK
I fly an Arrow III. There are a couple of good simple checks/reminders:
Take-off: after a reasonable climb-out, don't do anything until the gear is sorted: "Postive rate: gear-up" is what I say to myself. The gear only goes up when no runway is left.
Use the gear as a drag flap: To lose significant speed, put the gear down. This is useful on a downwind/approach. 21/25 as the setting with gear down should bring you to about 100kIAS.
Approach and Final: say to yourself: "All the Reds, All the Blues, All the Greens": Physically check the levers are fully forward, and look for the greens. The other useful thing to say when talking to ATC is: "G-XX is final with three greens" and look at the greens. I also do one last chance saloon check at about 200 ft.
Another useful saying: To go faster: "Revv-up": i.e. prop-speed. Slow down: "Throttle back" i.e. manifold pressure.
In a dark cockpit, make sure you are moving the correct lever. I started pulling back the red one on climb-out once, and thinking: that's strange...
I tend to keep power on just before touch-down. There is an art to it however, and it takes some getting used to.
Take-off: after a reasonable climb-out, don't do anything until the gear is sorted: "Postive rate: gear-up" is what I say to myself. The gear only goes up when no runway is left.
Use the gear as a drag flap: To lose significant speed, put the gear down. This is useful on a downwind/approach. 21/25 as the setting with gear down should bring you to about 100kIAS.
Approach and Final: say to yourself: "All the Reds, All the Blues, All the Greens": Physically check the levers are fully forward, and look for the greens. The other useful thing to say when talking to ATC is: "G-XX is final with three greens" and look at the greens. I also do one last chance saloon check at about 200 ft.
Another useful saying: To go faster: "Revv-up": i.e. prop-speed. Slow down: "Throttle back" i.e. manifold pressure.
In a dark cockpit, make sure you are moving the correct lever. I started pulling back the red one on climb-out once, and thinking: that's strange...
I tend to keep power on just before touch-down. There is an art to it however, and it takes some getting used to.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: The Death Star
No Sponsor,
Thanks for the comments. With regards to the power and pitch changes, I find that "black back", and "blue up" are easier to remember, but they you have described it also seems helpful for remembering the right lever!
I'd be interested to know what procedures people use for leveling off and descending, and the associated speeds they get with the manifold pressure they set. For instance I use 23" and 2300 in the cruise, and I find 20" and 2500 works well in the circuit, what about everyone else?
Regards,
Rusty.
Thanks for the comments. With regards to the power and pitch changes, I find that "black back", and "blue up" are easier to remember, but they you have described it also seems helpful for remembering the right lever!
I'd be interested to know what procedures people use for leveling off and descending, and the associated speeds they get with the manifold pressure they set. For instance I use 23" and 2300 in the cruise, and I find 20" and 2500 works well in the circuit, what about everyone else?
Regards,
Rusty.
