Flying into the sun
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 63
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From: Essex, UK
Flying into the sun
When flying over Essex in late summer evenings, I often face a return to Stapleford flying straight into the sunlight.
Over Essex the problem is not too bad as I know the area really well and can navigate purely out of the side windows. However, the thought of being cross country in lesser known territory, flying into blinding sun is a worry for me.
Then there's the question of traffic avoidance. Some comfort here is that the guy flying on a reciprocal heading to me should be able to see me better than I can see him, but of course there's no guarantee.
Does anyone have any experiences / advice re the above? For nav tips, I'd like to avoid the pure "use GPS" solution. Although I do use it often, I still check with the mark one eyeball.
Over Essex the problem is not too bad as I know the area really well and can navigate purely out of the side windows. However, the thought of being cross country in lesser known territory, flying into blinding sun is a worry for me.
Then there's the question of traffic avoidance. Some comfort here is that the guy flying on a reciprocal heading to me should be able to see me better than I can see him, but of course there's no guarantee.
Does anyone have any experiences / advice re the above? For nav tips, I'd like to avoid the pure "use GPS" solution. Although I do use it often, I still check with the mark one eyeball.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
The best advice is to get some sun-glasses. They don't even need to be expensive.
I wear glasses when I fly. I bought a £5 pair of "clip-on" sunglasses, which clip over the top of my regular glasses. They are hinged, so I can lift them up when I'm not flying into the sun, and fold them down when I turn around. Never had any problem with them, unless it's very hazy, too, in which case the viz into the sun can get below VMC and you should stay on the ground.
It's always worth getting a RIS if viz is bad for whatever reason, including a setting sun. Doesn't mean you don't have to look for traffic, of course, but it adds an extra pair of eyes when they're most needed.
The only time I've ever had problems with the sun, by the way, was when checking out on a new type (actually, a new variation of a type I was familiar with - I was checking out on a T-tail Arrow, having had plenty of experience on Warriors). I just couldn't get the flare right. After about 1/2 hour of bouncing down the runway, my instructor decided my problems weren't being helped by the fact I was landing directly into the sun. We moved to a different airfield with a different runway orientation, and the problem was solved - my landings were, well, no worse than usual. Once I was more familiar with the handling of the aircraft, even landing into the sun wasn't a problem any more.
FFF
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I wear glasses when I fly. I bought a £5 pair of "clip-on" sunglasses, which clip over the top of my regular glasses. They are hinged, so I can lift them up when I'm not flying into the sun, and fold them down when I turn around. Never had any problem with them, unless it's very hazy, too, in which case the viz into the sun can get below VMC and you should stay on the ground.
It's always worth getting a RIS if viz is bad for whatever reason, including a setting sun. Doesn't mean you don't have to look for traffic, of course, but it adds an extra pair of eyes when they're most needed.
The only time I've ever had problems with the sun, by the way, was when checking out on a new type (actually, a new variation of a type I was familiar with - I was checking out on a T-tail Arrow, having had plenty of experience on Warriors). I just couldn't get the flare right. After about 1/2 hour of bouncing down the runway, my instructor decided my problems weren't being helped by the fact I was landing directly into the sun. We moved to a different airfield with a different runway orientation, and the problem was solved - my landings were, well, no worse than usual. Once I was more familiar with the handling of the aircraft, even landing into the sun wasn't a problem any more.
FFF
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Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 63
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From: Essex, UK
Thanks for the reply, FFF.
Another aspect I've just remembered is the scratched windscreen of the club 152! This certainly doesn't help.
I do wear sunglasses, although even then I can't see many distinct ground features straight ahead (except Hanningfield Reservoir!!).
Maybe I should be on the ground as you say.....
Another aspect I've just remembered is the scratched windscreen of the club 152! This certainly doesn't help.
I do wear sunglasses, although even then I can't see many distinct ground features straight ahead (except Hanningfield Reservoir!!).
Maybe I should be on the ground as you say.....
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
Likes: 75
From: uk
Eyes,
I am very pleased that you have asked this question because it is an issue which has always worried me and which, for some reason, is rarely discussed.
Navigation doesn't normally bother me too much en route as I can identify land marks to the side or even behind me. Where it really bothers me is on the approach to some airfields, when approaching from the East. For non ATC fields with an overhead join it's not normally a problem but when there is ATC and you are asked to report "field in sight" either for a straight in approach or for downwind join, it does worry me. I usually tell ATC of my difficulties and, so far, they have helped me out. But I do get the impression that many pilots are reluctant to tell ATC that they can't see, perhaps afraid that someone may decide that they are not in VMC which, looking one way, I suppose that they aren't.
I hope that this topic elicits the usual helpful ideas from the more experienced among us.
P1
I am very pleased that you have asked this question because it is an issue which has always worried me and which, for some reason, is rarely discussed.
Navigation doesn't normally bother me too much en route as I can identify land marks to the side or even behind me. Where it really bothers me is on the approach to some airfields, when approaching from the East. For non ATC fields with an overhead join it's not normally a problem but when there is ATC and you are asked to report "field in sight" either for a straight in approach or for downwind join, it does worry me. I usually tell ATC of my difficulties and, so far, they have helped me out. But I do get the impression that many pilots are reluctant to tell ATC that they can't see, perhaps afraid that someone may decide that they are not in VMC which, looking one way, I suppose that they aren't.
I hope that this topic elicits the usual helpful ideas from the more experienced among us.
P1
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
A few practical suggestions.
(1) Tack, that is if you have to go due west, plan a route initially NW, then due South. Takes longer, but avoids flying directly into the sun.
(2) Fly low and slow, hard work but you've a better view down there and less other traffic.
(3) Get a RAS (normally only available if you have a transponder working).
(4) Make sure the windscreen is clean before you start.
(5) Don't wear sunglasses in anything like a flexwing which will stop you taking them off if you fly through sunset. (I made this mistake once, and although legally I didn't use my night rating, I certainly used the training!).
G
(1) Tack, that is if you have to go due west, plan a route initially NW, then due South. Takes longer, but avoids flying directly into the sun.
(2) Fly low and slow, hard work but you've a better view down there and less other traffic.
(3) Get a RAS (normally only available if you have a transponder working).
(4) Make sure the windscreen is clean before you start.
(5) Don't wear sunglasses in anything like a flexwing which will stop you taking them off if you fly through sunset. (I made this mistake once, and although legally I didn't use my night rating, I certainly used the training!).
G
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
From: Dorset, UK
Sun Visors
A few aircraft that I fly, such as Archer III, have fold down sun-visors, that I find a great help when returning to runway 26, just before sunset.
These are similar to car sun-visors, but are made of see-through plastic, that is tinted like dark sun glasses. As far as I am aware, these are standard kit on new Pipers, so presumably approved by the CAA, for Public AoC aircraft.
So, question for our engineering guru, Ghengis:-
Could similar sun-visors be retro fitted to all light aircraft, or would that require a CAA minor mod authorisation, and, of course a large cheque to the CAA?
These are similar to car sun-visors, but are made of see-through plastic, that is tinted like dark sun glasses. As far as I am aware, these are standard kit on new Pipers, so presumably approved by the CAA, for Public AoC aircraft.
So, question for our engineering guru, Ghengis:-
Could similar sun-visors be retro fitted to all light aircraft, or would that require a CAA minor mod authorisation, and, of course a large cheque to the CAA?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: South East
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
From: England
Landing into a low sun, I've tried various solutions including "stick-on" sun visor patches, all without much success. Mrs QNH came up with the simplest solution which we now both use - peaked caps. The only thing is to make sure they are readily accessible in flight (don't want to wear them all the time). Sorry Genghis, not sure whether this would work with a microlight.
Finally, don't forget to clean the windows before flight. That can make a tremendous difference.
Finally, don't forget to clean the windows before flight. That can make a tremendous difference.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
I don't speak for the CAA, and hope I never do (that building at Gatwick gives me the willies), but IMHO if a visor is non-permanently attached inside the cabin, there should be no need for a mod application so long as you haven't altered anything on the main structure.
If you drill, cut, permanently stick, or protrude outside the cabin, you'll almost certainly need a mod application. Keep it minor if you can, which last I looked cost £62, major mod costs don't bear thinking about (£104/hr CAA time, with no effective limit, plus the submission has to be from an approved company, of which there are very few).
Peaked caps and bonedomes in my experience don't go well together, but microlights are happy at 500ft, where the worst of the glare is generally avoided.
G
If you drill, cut, permanently stick, or protrude outside the cabin, you'll almost certainly need a mod application. Keep it minor if you can, which last I looked cost £62, major mod costs don't bear thinking about (£104/hr CAA time, with no effective limit, plus the submission has to be from an approved company, of which there are very few).
Peaked caps and bonedomes in my experience don't go well together, but microlights are happy at 500ft, where the worst of the glare is generally avoided.
G
