Seething Formation Photo's!
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Well you can't put these in your bin can you!? No-one's asking you to publish them... sheesh! 
The point is it was a fun days flying... get over yourself mate!
The point is it was a fun days flying... get over yourself mate!
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Hey, I wasn't rubbishing these pictures and no offence intended. My enquiry was genuine. They look slightly 'soft' on my screen, and I just wondered if they'd been degraded by posting on the web. I'm delighted you had a good time and have some memorable pictures of the occasion. As I said, it's never as easy as those who haven't tried it imagine. Sometimes, coming with anything from an air-to-air sortie is an achievement in itself. The session I remember best was one on which, despite very careful briefing about our rendezvous point, we never saw the target aircraft again until it landed back.
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None taken....
The photos here (and at http://www.users.waitrose.com/~ajhardy/flying/) are low-res renditions of the orginal hi-res images.
To see the high res images, go to http://community.webshots.com/user/andyhardyuk - these are also low-res, buit each image has a link below it to the original hi-res version, e.g. http://community.webshots.com/storag...2LgWOPN_fs.jpg
Cheers
The photos here (and at http://www.users.waitrose.com/~ajhardy/flying/) are low-res renditions of the orginal hi-res images.
To see the high res images, go to http://community.webshots.com/user/andyhardyuk - these are also low-res, buit each image has a link below it to the original hi-res version, e.g. http://community.webshots.com/storag...2LgWOPN_fs.jpg
Cheers
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Andy, you've confirmed what I suspected, that the low-rez images just take some of the sharpness off, but it's certainly there on the high-rez files. Incidentally, that abortive sortie I mentioned began (and ended with not a frame shot) at BAFC's base at Booker, but it was so long ago that I think it was still called Airways Aero Association then!
Jumpseater:Jumpseater: another useful tip for avoiding reflections if you have to shoot through a canopy or window is to avoid wearing a light coloured shirt or jacket - definitely not the occasion for proving your washing powder's whiter-than-white capability. A piece of black cloth draped around you, in the fashion of Victorian studio photographers, can also be a help. Tinted windows, on the other hand, are no help at all...
Jumpseater:Jumpseater: another useful tip for avoiding reflections if you have to shoot through a canopy or window is to avoid wearing a light coloured shirt or jacket - definitely not the occasion for proving your washing powder's whiter-than-white capability. A piece of black cloth draped around you, in the fashion of Victorian studio photographers, can also be a help. Tinted windows, on the other hand, are no help at all...
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Aerohack
The guys involved in this don't claim to be pro photographers just enthusiasts for both flying and photography.
I know there are vary able pros out there who get ace shots all the time and this team are not pretending to be anywhere near as good as them. If only we could achieve results similar to that Spitfire cover!
As long as Aussie Andy doesn't want to put them in the bin then objective of the exercise is achieved.
Not being defensive for me but the other guys put in a lot of effort at their own cost and I get a bit protective about their efforts being knocked (even if only gently!). Some of the pics they have done are certainly sub standard to those you and your fellow pros deliver but then a slightly soft air to air shot of an aircraft is probably better then none at all for most of the guys we have given complimentary CDs to.
The dark jacket advice is very sound. I have seen people wearing high vis vests trying to take a picture through glass / perspex! it certianly demonstrates the ability of the vest to be seen!.
The guys involved in this don't claim to be pro photographers just enthusiasts for both flying and photography.
I know there are vary able pros out there who get ace shots all the time and this team are not pretending to be anywhere near as good as them. If only we could achieve results similar to that Spitfire cover!
As long as Aussie Andy doesn't want to put them in the bin then objective of the exercise is achieved.
Not being defensive for me but the other guys put in a lot of effort at their own cost and I get a bit protective about their efforts being knocked (even if only gently!). Some of the pics they have done are certainly sub standard to those you and your fellow pros deliver but then a slightly soft air to air shot of an aircraft is probably better then none at all for most of the guys we have given complimentary CDs to.
The dark jacket advice is very sound. I have seen people wearing high vis vests trying to take a picture through glass / perspex! it certianly demonstrates the ability of the vest to be seen!.
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formationfoto Truth is, Ian, even the best pros don't get ace shots all the time — they cleverly just don't show you the duff ones! Perhaps only the likes of the late Charles E Brown made every shot pay off, but then he was working with one-shot-at-a-time large-format cameras and often had the luxury of cruising around for as long as it took to find that perfect cloudscape. Not so easy when you've got 15 minutes hanging out of the door of a 172 on a dull February day (bin there, dun that, many times, and didn't get ace shots!). High-rez shots of the Dakota to which Andy directed me show none of that softness, which was obviously the result of compressing for the website.
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The secret is out......
You get good shots by throwing the bad ones away! - Mike thanks I feel a bit better about the guys attempts now. Hanging out of a 172 with the wind blowing around and some idiot trying to get you to lean right out is certainly character forming - why do you think I try and sit in the subject a/c?.
I'm just off to do some throwing out.
You get good shots by throwing the bad ones away! - Mike thanks I feel a bit better about the guys attempts now. Hanging out of a 172 with the wind blowing around and some idiot trying to get you to lean right out is certainly character forming - why do you think I try and sit in the subject a/c?.
I'm just off to do some throwing out.
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In my youth (or at least when I was a lot younger and even more foolish) I used to ride sideways, legs out, in a doorless 172 with just a lapstrap, to shoot offshore powerboats. Stopped that after the occasion when a LASA 60 just ahead suddenly plopped into the sea after an engine failure. Got my attention very quickly, that!
Last edited by Aerohack; 1st Nov 2002 at 18:07.
Good tip re the dark clothing and not wearing hi-vis! the simple things are sometimes those easiest to miss!, I asked the question as only having done air to ground with the door off (R22), I was looking for the easy/top tip answer!, thanks!.
And yep youre only as good as the last picture you took!, so my file 13in is frequently full, and Mrs js asking why are you throwing these out?, if I get as many as 25% 'merchantable quality' per film I'm happy, and I'm not even a pro snapper!
And yep youre only as good as the last picture you took!, so my file 13in is frequently full, and Mrs js asking why are you throwing these out?, if I get as many as 25% 'merchantable quality' per film I'm happy, and I'm not even a pro snapper!
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Aerhack / all,
Reference the slightly soft photos... I agree. However, be aware that the Canon D60, whilst being an excellent digital SLR, does produce slightly soft images out of the camera - trust me, I know! This is not a problem, but rather it is just how most DSLRs work. Five minutes of careful work with Photoshop will have most Canon D60 images that on first look appear soft looking stunning. My immediate reaction to several of those images before I even saw the remarks about them being slightly soft was that they could do with a bit of careful unsharp mask work in Photoshop.
What doesn't help is that the low res versions show some signs of jpeg compression (saved at lower than maximum quality, presumably to reduce file sizes and transmission times) and this can also lead to a small loss in clarity.
Nice photos... I suspect that many if not all of them could be nipped and tucked a bit with just a small amount of effort and no one would make any adverse comment whatsoever about them.
Andy
Reference the slightly soft photos... I agree. However, be aware that the Canon D60, whilst being an excellent digital SLR, does produce slightly soft images out of the camera - trust me, I know! This is not a problem, but rather it is just how most DSLRs work. Five minutes of careful work with Photoshop will have most Canon D60 images that on first look appear soft looking stunning. My immediate reaction to several of those images before I even saw the remarks about them being slightly soft was that they could do with a bit of careful unsharp mask work in Photoshop.
What doesn't help is that the low res versions show some signs of jpeg compression (saved at lower than maximum quality, presumably to reduce file sizes and transmission times) and this can also lead to a small loss in clarity.
Nice photos... I suspect that many if not all of them could be nipped and tucked a bit with just a small amount of effort and no one would make any adverse comment whatsoever about them.
Andy
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Eastmids
Not sure what processing AusAnd did with the pics before posting them here. He was given the CD of the download straight from the camera whereas before they go into our archive they recieve some very basic tidying up in photoshop / paintshop pro. Before use on the web or in the mag they receive further photoshop work. The camera is used in best JPEG mode rather than raw for most of the work unless we are trying to create a potential cover or full page shot. these were in fact taken with the D1X rather than the D60. The other photographetr on the team uses the D60. I think my preference (partly because it is cheaper) is the D60 - it produces slightly better pics I think - but subjective.
Not sure what processing AusAnd did with the pics before posting them here. He was given the CD of the download straight from the camera whereas before they go into our archive they recieve some very basic tidying up in photoshop / paintshop pro. Before use on the web or in the mag they receive further photoshop work. The camera is used in best JPEG mode rather than raw for most of the work unless we are trying to create a potential cover or full page shot. these were in fact taken with the D1X rather than the D60. The other photographetr on the team uses the D60. I think my preference (partly because it is cheaper) is the D60 - it produces slightly better pics I think - but subjective.
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Jumpseater: Do reassure Mrs JS that 25% merchantable quality is a pretty good batting average, and does not reflect (no high-viz pun intended there!) on your ability as a photographer. When shooting subjects that can't be closely controlled as they can in a studio set-up, most pros tend to 'shotgun' and pick out the best later. Film is still the cheapest element in photography, and especially so with air-to-air where you have a couple of expensive aeroplanes poling around. I can tell you from personal acquaintance that some of the most talented aviation photographers, whose work is used by the major general aviation manufacturers, will happily run off 40 or more rolls of Kodachrome on a single air-to-air shoot. It has nothing to do with lack of technical ability, simply good insurance when you look at the cost of launching, say, a Citation and a B-25 camera ship for several hours. Formationfoto: quite brave of your team to burn CDs straight off the camera without any editing! 30-odd years ago when I was seeking freelance work in Fleet Street I was quite dismayed when the picture editor of a now long-defunct national tabloid skimmed quickly through my portfolio of immaculately printed, carefully retouched 15 X 12s, but spent a long time poring over my contact sheets. He was looking to see how my mind and eye had been working behind the viewfinder, not how clever I'd been in the darkroom afterwards.
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What a palaver ! 
It seems these images inspire more photographical than aeronautical discussion! No, I know thats not fair as we discussed the formation flying part as well, but as a "point-and-click" photographer, I guess I just can't keep up with the ins-and-outs of the photographical debate this has become!
But seeing as you asked, the original large format pictures were just stuck into webshots.com (so my family at home in Australia can see them) and it automatically (and probably not very carefully!) shrinks them to more easily web-viewable size.
Now, can we get back to flying!? (just kidding)
It seems these images inspire more photographical than aeronautical discussion! No, I know thats not fair as we discussed the formation flying part as well, but as a "point-and-click" photographer, I guess I just can't keep up with the ins-and-outs of the photographical debate this has become!
But seeing as you asked, the original large format pictures were just stuck into webshots.com (so my family at home in Australia can see them) and it automatically (and probably not very carefully!) shrinks them to more easily web-viewable size.
Now, can we get back to flying!? (just kidding)
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Sunday 3/11 mid afternoon - just finishing off a bit of welding and thinking of going flying when the sound of multiple aero-engines caused me to wander outside.
There was a 3 ship stonking overhead at circa 800' - formation lead was a yellow smoke equipped tailwheel (Extra) - I recognised the Mooney but didn't know what the white bird was.
So because the smoke went on as you saw me, I guess that was you FF? I pushed the Pitts out but by the time I was airborne you'd all £*cked off!
Practiced multiple rolls and hesitation rolls until it became too dark to carry on safely!
Will bring the Pushpak over for some photos v soon.
Stik
There was a 3 ship stonking overhead at circa 800' - formation lead was a yellow smoke equipped tailwheel (Extra) - I recognised the Mooney but didn't know what the white bird was.
So because the smoke went on as you saw me, I guess that was you FF? I pushed the Pitts out but by the time I was airborne you'd all £*cked off!
Practiced multiple rolls and hesitation rolls until it became too dark to carry on safely!
Will bring the Pushpak over for some photos v soon.
Stik
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Stik
You will have to be quicker next time!
The Extra was Denny on the way back to Little Staughton after flying some competition winners at Seething. The Mooney was Brian and the other a/c was an Arrow which arrived with Denny. Also in the group (but not in the formation) was a Jet Ranger. Sadly I was on the ground but was flying the 172 target a/c for photos earlier in the morning. By the way Denny is looking for an S2B for a future formation act - aware of any?.
AusAnd
Aviation bores are tedious, photo bores even more so, aviation photo bores the worst of the lot. Sadly I think that means I need to get a life quickly before I bore myself to death!
You will have to be quicker next time!
The Extra was Denny on the way back to Little Staughton after flying some competition winners at Seething. The Mooney was Brian and the other a/c was an Arrow which arrived with Denny. Also in the group (but not in the formation) was a Jet Ranger. Sadly I was on the ground but was flying the 172 target a/c for photos earlier in the morning. By the way Denny is looking for an S2B for a future formation act - aware of any?.
AusAnd
Aviation bores are tedious, photo bores even more so, aviation photo bores the worst of the lot. Sadly I think that means I need to get a life quickly before I bore myself to death!
