ATZ Question
Guest
Posts: n/a
ATZ Question
Ok - yet another question for the floor.....
On the subject of ATZs I've got two questions:
1. Why do some aerodromes have them and some don't? Does it indicate the level of activity?
2. Is it correct that if an aerodrome has an ATZ and is only operating an air/ground service - eg White Waltham - they cannot give you permission to enter their ATZ. Therefore, if I want to transit their ATZ en route somewhere else I should simply tell them that I am doing so rather than ask for their permission to do so?
On the subject of ATZs I've got two questions:
1. Why do some aerodromes have them and some don't? Does it indicate the level of activity?
2. Is it correct that if an aerodrome has an ATZ and is only operating an air/ground service - eg White Waltham - they cannot give you permission to enter their ATZ. Therefore, if I want to transit their ATZ en route somewhere else I should simply tell them that I am doing so rather than ask for their permission to do so?
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
1. Nothing to do with level of activity - it's to do with whether it's licensed or not. Licensed airfields have an ATZ, unlicensed ones don't. Some unlicensed fields, such as Popham, can become much busier than certain licensed fields, even though they don't have an ATZ. A bit of local knowledge is required to learn which un-licensed airfields are busy enough to stay away from...
2. Kind of, yes. You're not allowed to enter an ATZ unless you have enough information to be able to do so safely. This is usually interpreted to mean that you inform that A/G service that you intend to overfly the field, and they give you all the information you need, which would usually be, at the very least, which runway is in use, which direction the circuit is, and what the local QNH (and possibly QFE) is. If you don't get this information, you're not allowed in the ATZ. However, since they are not ATC, they're not allowed to not give you the information if you ask for it. So, in effect, you're right. Many airfields will also give you traffic information, but bear in mind that the radio operators are not qualified in any way, so their assessment of the traffic may not be the same as that of an ATC station. (On the other hand, the person working A/G may be an ATCer on his day off, who's able to give you quality information - you just don't know.)
Hope that helps,
FFF
---------------
2. Kind of, yes. You're not allowed to enter an ATZ unless you have enough information to be able to do so safely. This is usually interpreted to mean that you inform that A/G service that you intend to overfly the field, and they give you all the information you need, which would usually be, at the very least, which runway is in use, which direction the circuit is, and what the local QNH (and possibly QFE) is. If you don't get this information, you're not allowed in the ATZ. However, since they are not ATC, they're not allowed to not give you the information if you ask for it. So, in effect, you're right. Many airfields will also give you traffic information, but bear in mind that the radio operators are not qualified in any way, so their assessment of the traffic may not be the same as that of an ATC station. (On the other hand, the person working A/G may be an ATCer on his day off, who's able to give you quality information - you just don't know.)
Hope that helps,
FFF
---------------
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: never never land
good luck
mmm what if the aerodrome is closed? Good luck on your skills test.
A good way to win money on zone questions is the matz penetration one! look what you realy need to enter then ask a flying buff and bet him a lady gadiver. easy money!
A good way to win money on zone questions is the matz penetration one! look what you realy need to enter then ask a flying buff and bet him a lady gadiver. easy money!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Box Hill or Bust
dedstikyfingerz
Normally the ATZ hours are coincident with the published ATS hours. However, I know of at least one airfield, Warton, where the ATZ is notified H24, despite ATC not being there all the time. Also caution should be exercised as some airfields have out of hours activities like ambulance flights which require a licensed airfield. In these cases the ATZ will be activated at short notice via NOTAM. It is always worth calling on the appropriate frequency out of hours just to make sure.
Normally the ATZ hours are coincident with the published ATS hours. However, I know of at least one airfield, Warton, where the ATZ is notified H24, despite ATC not being there all the time. Also caution should be exercised as some airfields have out of hours activities like ambulance flights which require a licensed airfield. In these cases the ATZ will be activated at short notice via NOTAM. It is always worth calling on the appropriate frequency out of hours just to make sure.
aceatco, retired
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,431
Likes: 1
From: one airshow or another
It isn't quite as simple as licensed/unlicensed as being the deciding factor as to whether an ATZ exists.
An unlicensed aerodrome having an ATC unit (not sure if there is such a thing) or FISO unit where the hours of watch are notified in the AIP would have an ATZ during those hours. Also a normally licensed aerodrome with a notified ATC unit that becomes temporarily unlicensed, say because of no fire cover, would not lose it's ATZ status.
On the other hand, a licensed aerodrome which doesn't have a regularly manned RT frequency, by which I mean the hours are notified, would not have an ATZ.
See Rule 39 of the Rules of the Air.
Old Warden is occasionally licensed to permit pleasure flights by fare paying public but because the airfield isn't published in the AIP and does not have notified hours of watch of the FISO unit then it does not have an ATZ, even on display days. Displays are notfied by NOTAM but this does not confer ATZ status. We are trying to do something about this.
An unlicensed aerodrome having an ATC unit (not sure if there is such a thing) or FISO unit where the hours of watch are notified in the AIP would have an ATZ during those hours. Also a normally licensed aerodrome with a notified ATC unit that becomes temporarily unlicensed, say because of no fire cover, would not lose it's ATZ status.
On the other hand, a licensed aerodrome which doesn't have a regularly manned RT frequency, by which I mean the hours are notified, would not have an ATZ.
See Rule 39 of the Rules of the Air.
Old Warden is occasionally licensed to permit pleasure flights by fare paying public but because the airfield isn't published in the AIP and does not have notified hours of watch of the FISO unit then it does not have an ATZ, even on display days. Displays are notfied by NOTAM but this does not confer ATZ status. We are trying to do something about this.
niknak
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
From: UK
On the subject of ATZ hours, the ATZ is considered to be active during the published opening hours of the airfield. Outside that the ATZ does not exist unless activated by notam.
The only exceptions will be when the airfield is a "Government Airfield", in which case the ATZ is active H24 regardless of whether ATC are there or not.
The vast majority of flying at Warton is of a of a "Government Nature", and consequently I think that's why they differ.
Don't forget that the MATZ (Military ATZ) surrounding a Government aerodrome ATZ is unregulated airspace, and no formal permission to penetrate it is required - unless it is coincident with controlled airspace - as I think is the case at Warton. That said, it would be very unwise and probably poor airmanship to enter a MATZ without calling to announce yourself first.
The only exceptions will be when the airfield is a "Government Airfield", in which case the ATZ is active H24 regardless of whether ATC are there or not.
The vast majority of flying at Warton is of a of a "Government Nature", and consequently I think that's why they differ.
Don't forget that the MATZ (Military ATZ) surrounding a Government aerodrome ATZ is unregulated airspace, and no formal permission to penetrate it is required - unless it is coincident with controlled airspace - as I think is the case at Warton. That said, it would be very unwise and probably poor airmanship to enter a MATZ without calling to announce yourself first.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
From: Box Hill or Bust
The other thing to remember is that quite many airfields allow out of hours flying on indemnity, or have the Police Air support unit based with them, and while the ATZ may not be active during these periods, the circuit may well be.
